Lacto banned?????

[Wadders]

Some one just text me to say Peter has been banned form the forums!!!!
Is this true? I don't go over there any more, so would be interested as to why?

Wadders

[Bill D (wwh)]

Yes, Peter's been given a three-day ban from the Groundspeak forums, without a warning, for posting in their Geocoins forum that Mandy (Us 4 and Jess) has some Mega Event calendars left and would be willing to trade them for geocoins. Apparently that was an inappropriate post. Go figure... :ph34r:

If you don't want to visit the other place you'll find more info in our Mega Event Calendars thread.

[The Hornet]

Yes, I (The Hornet) have been banned from the forum for 3 days for making the mistake of thinking there might be a little leeway in the Geocoin forum.

I have also been banned as Lactodorum for asking people to use an alternative contact.

So there'll be no posting from me "over there". I can still receive e-mails (at the moment) but I am in no position to answer some of the points being made by certain people.

[studlyone]

Absolutely barking mad - a total knee jerk reaction to a post that due to the heavy handed interpretation of the fourm guidelines was considered in breach of the rules. What ever happened to Mods issueing cautions or explaining to people what they've done wrong when people transgress the rules.
It makes me thankfull that the UK mods have always been approachable and level headed when it came to rule interpretation.
I'm gobsmacked that they've banned you and even more confused as according to the geocoin forum rules you can post charity related threads :confused:
I'd like to thank the hornet for trying to help Mandy out only to get two bans in one day - elevating him to legendary evil supervillan status on the groundspeak forums.

[The Hornet]

As I'm not allowed to answer on the GSP forums I would like to make a couple of points.


Hello,
I am one of the geocoin forum moderators. I am the one who suspended the posting rights of The Hornet. The Hornet was not banned. There is a big difference between being suspended for a short time, and being banned.
If you are banned, you do not come back.

I think this may be another instance of speaking similar, but different languages. That may be the meaning in American, but in the English I speak a Ban can have both meanings. My "Ban" was for three days, whatever the word used.


I feel more strongly that The Hornet should have been aware of the guidelines

A three day suspension is the normal time given for a first offense and this was the first offense in this case in the geocoins forums.

As you say, I was a forum moderator and I do know the guidelines that moderators follow. I have a copy. The relevant section as I see it says

"If informal warnings don't get the message across, issue a 10% warning on the member's warn meter. Copy the warning text into a PM with the subject "Groundspeak Forums Warning" so that the member receives a copy. ALL warnings should link to the post or thread in question, explain which forum guideline(s) were violated, and lay out the future consequences.

For more serious violations, or if a simple warning doesn't work, read on!
"and

When to temporarily disable the posting ability

• Repeated violation of the forum guidelines.

• First Offense: 3 Days

If those guidelines had been followed I would have been warned for my misdemeanour. I received no warning, I was banned (suspended) for 3 days right off. If you had warned me, as is your right as forum moderator, I might have been "miffed" but I would have accepted it. It was the immediate ban/suspension that annoyed me.

As for using the appeals process, yes that is an option. However I know how that works. We'll see.

[Us 4 and Jess]

I'd like to thank the hornet for trying to help Mandy out only to get two bans in one day - elevating him to legendary evil supervillan status on the groundspeak forum.

Too funny..........now for your next trick Peter !!

[Us 4 and Jess]

And I would like to add your doing "nowt" for my calendar sales LOL !!

I did have a good laugh ealier though...

Someone said " Mandy do you think now is a good time to ask GSP for permission for next years calendars" :eek::ph34r:

Pleased I have friends in the regionals ;)

M :)

[The Hornet]

Just for completeness and as it is no longer visible, here is my original, "offending", post in the Geocoin forum.

"The UK's first ever Mega Event was hosted last weekend. As part of the fund raising activities a well respected UK cacher was selling specially made Mega Event commemorative calendars (produced with Groundspeak's permission). Some of these were left over and so they are being offered either as swaps for Dog related geocoins or for sale. I realise that these are not trackables but they are Geocaching items, produced by a Geocacher, supporting a Geocaching event and approved by Groundspeak. I hope that given the special circumstances this will not cause any problems."

[minstrelcat]

Just for completeness and as it is no longer visible, here is my original, "offending", post in the Geocoin forum.

A polite and reasonable post - and the reply from the moderator should have been in a similar vein. :mad:

Lisa

[fraggle69]

Is someone being just a tad anal?

[Wadders]

Is someone being just a tad anal?


NO, where they are concerned the word "TAD" is inappropriate, what you mean is "TOTAL" anal:D
God i am so glad i have given myself a 12 month exclusion from those plonkers, it is so frightening to think they are a super power:eek:

[Wadders]

Invite everyone over here, then we can say stuff the groundspeak forums:p

[Izzy and the Lizard King]

Just a thought...... couldn't this thread be re-named "Laccy band"? :ph34r:

[Bear and Ragged]

Think you're stretching things a bit, there!
:rolleyes:

[Bill D (wwh)]

Peter, having now read your post in question, I think it's completely absurd that you've been suspended for it. Presumably the bit about the calendars also being for sale, not just swaps for coins, was the problem, but it seems to me that if it was then the way to handle that was a friendly warning and perhaps a minor edit to the post.

The friendly warning seems to be what GS's own guidelines require in that situation anyway, but I'm afraid it doesn't surprise me to see them ignoring their own guidelines.

[Us 4 and Jess]

They make it up as they go along.........really they do :mad:

One week they are saying one rule/guideline right across the board...

The next week they are saying the Geocoins forums rules/guideline are different to the UK forums rules/guidelanes...

Mandy :)

Anyone want to buy any calendars :D

[molfrew-mosstoad]

Just for completeness and as it is no longer visible, here is my original, "offending", post in the Geocoin forum.


I cant believe they banned you for that! I say it again Unbelievable

[Simply Paul]

I'd like to offer Peter my support and sympathies here too- as I'm no longer welcome on the GroundSpeak forums due to my love of anagrams of words which are rude. Like him, I didn't receive a warning, I just got a mail saying I'd used profanities (fcuk isn't a profanity, they sell clothes, and Cnut really was a king- feel free to google!) and I'd been excluded from the forums... where it just so happens I was being a vocal supporter of groundspeak's published guidelines, but not their agent's interpretation of them in Peter's case. I suspect this might have been a factor in me getting the chop... :rolleyes:

So, hello one and all and don't be too surprised if you see more of me here in future. So long as the above 'anagrams of words which are rude' don't get me a ban here too... :eek:

SP

[Chaotica_UK]

A polite and reasonable post - and the reply from the moderator should have been in a similar vein. :mad:

Lisa

Well said Lisa, and they should have followed their own guidelines. Seems to me like someone was looking for an opportunity to discredit Lacto. Well it failed and seems to have had exactly the opposite impact looking at the comments on this and the 'other' forum.

Mark

[studlyone]

Simply Paul, I am sure you will be welcomed here with open arms. I have always loved reading your posts and its a shame to have seen you get the chop along with the hornet. That must make you our second geo-scoundrel. You'll find it a bit more relaxed and user friendly around here.
Ian

[Bill D (wwh)]

Simply Paul wrote:

So, hello one and all and don't be too surprised if you see more of me here in future. So long as the above 'anagrams of words which are rude' don't get me a ban here too... :eek:I don't think there's any likelihood of your getting banned here, Paul. We aim to apply common sense in moderating our forums. Would that others did too.

[Simply Paul]

Thanks Ian. I like to think I made a worthwhile, helpful, entertaining and positive impact on the GS forums but, hey, they're theirs and if they don't want me there... I always have sock puppets if I need them. Dozens of the burgers ;)

As in Peter's case it's the disproportionate overreaction by MATO (our Masters Across The Ocean, to separate them from TPTB, which might include British/Irish mods/reviewers) to things there which has got my goat. They really are behaving as if it was their forum- err. Umm.

Anyway, glad to be here, enjoying the freedom of speech while not trying to offend anyone. My question right now is, is there anything we can do to support Peter's struggle against the utilitarian might (is right) of GroundSpeak? We could sign a petition at least. Or set up a charitable campaign fund... so long as we did it in secret :P

[Wadders]

I'd like to offer Peter my support and sympathies here too- as I'm no longer welcome on the GroundSpeak forums due to my love of anagrams of words which are rude. Like him, I didn't receive a warning, I just got a mail saying I'd used profanities (fcuk isn't a profanity, they sell clothes, and Cnut really was a king- feel free to google!) and I'd been excluded from the forums... where it just so happens I was being a vocal supporter of groundspeak's published guidelines, but not their agent's interpretation of them in Peter's case. I suspect this might have been a factor in me getting the chop... :rolleyes:

So, hello one and all and don't be too surprised if you see more of me here in future. So long as the above 'anagrams of words which are rude' don't get me a ban here too... :eek:

SP

And i thought i took my time coming across to this side, welcome aboard:applause:

[2202]

Sorry if my first posting would not be acceptable over the other side of the pond but in the words of Tony from Men Behaving Badly speaking face to face with Eartha, 'RESSOT'.
Trust we have sanity over here. OMG we don't, you can work it out for yourselves the much repeated quote from MBB.
cheers
Tony

[Lost in Space]

......and don't be too surprised if you see more of me here in future.........


Heck, all we need now is for Dan and Pid to get here and we can really have a party!! Just like the good old days......
:):)

[Wadders]

Heck, all we need now is for Dan and Pid to get here and we can really have a party!! Just like the good old days......
:):)

Party.....Party....did someone metion party??:beer::beer::cheers:

[nobbynobbs]

What !!! a party just when I'm going away from all internet for a week!!!!

keep a few drinks to one side for me.:beer:

And it's great to see you all here, just a shame that it's down to another balls up from those muppets over there

[The Hornet]

Hey! Mrs Hornet is away for the weekend, I've just finished a curry and opened another bottle of red, let's PARTY!! :cheers:

As you can see I'm not shedding too many tears about "the other place". I'll probably have my say after my sentence is up (any time off for good behaviour?). In the mean time it seems this is the place to be. :)

Rock on!

[Us 4 and Jess]

Well we can all see how upset you are...

About MRS H and the darkside ;)

Malibu and coke for me please :cheers:

[Izzy and the Lizard King]

Trust we have sanity over here.
Tony
Sorry to say it, but there is no 'Sanity Clause'. :D

Paul

[hiho9]

hes in geocaht as well that hornet fellow...

[lordelph]

I've been watching the mayhem on the forums for a while - it's rather saddening to watch Groundspeak slide towards being "the enemy".

So, time to move on, and my, things are starting to look a little vibrant over here! Will try to wean myself off the tired old groundspeak crapfest and keep my eye on here instead.

To that end, I'm wondering if a little Greasemonkey magic would be useful for others who are fed up. I could make it possible for Firefox users to see recently updated topics from *here* while looking at the topic list *over there*.

For example, it could show the top 10 recently updated topics from GAGB first, followed by the Groundspeak ones. Anyone using it would get a feel for the GAGB forums, without feeling that they are "missing out"....

[minstrelcat]

To that end, I'm wondering if a little Greasemonkey magic would be useful for others who are fed up. I could make it possible for Firefox users to see recently updated topics from *here* while looking at the topic list *over there*.

For example, it could show the top 10 recently updated topics from GAGB first, followed by the Groundspeak ones. Anyone using it would get a feel for the GAGB forums, without feeling that they are "missing out"....

I like that idea - go for it! :)

Lisa

[2202]

Whilst I love all those greasemonkey scripts, the one being suggested reminds me of the great Joni Mitchell lyric:
"Like a priest with a pornographic watch/looking and longing on the sly/ sure you can strike it from your uniform/but you can't get it out of your eye."

Thought that coming over from the 'dark' side was to get away from the GC forum. (and yes I dont have to install it)

[Just Roger]

Something went all screwy with this post so started again below

[Just Roger]

To that end, I'm wondering if a little Greasemonkey magic would be useful for others who are fed up. I could make it possible for Firefox users to see recently updated topics from *here* while looking at the topic list *over there*.

For example, it could show the top 10 recently updated topics from GAGB first, followed by the Groundspeak ones. Anyone using it would get a feel for the GAGB forums, without feeling that they are "missing out"....

A good idea and while you are at it, :):) how about an 'Ignore Thread' script for here. Yes, there are some threads I am not interested in even here.

[hiho9]

I've been watching the mayhem on the forums for a while - it's rather saddening to watch Groundspeak slide towards being "the enemy".

So, time to move on, and my, things are starting to look a little vibrant over here! Will try to wean myself off the tired old groundspeak crapfest and keep my eye on here instead.

To that end, I'm wondering if a little Greasemonkey magic would be useful for others who are fed up. I could make it possible for Firefox users to see recently updated topics from *here* while looking at the topic list *over there*.

For example, it could show the top 10 recently updated topics from GAGB first, followed by the Groundspeak ones. Anyone using it would get a feel for the GAGB forums, without feeling that they are "missing out"....

what a good idea:applause:

[jacobite]

I had enough of GSP's tactics a while ago, The Hornet's ban is just the cherry on top for me. I've said all I have to say "over there", the sooner my caches are listed elsewhere, the better.

[Dave from Glanton]

So long as the above 'anagrams of words which are rude' don't get me a ban here too... :eek:


That would be a load of carp, wouldn't it?

[arock&ahardplace]

Count me in as another person who has moved to these forums from the Groundspeak ones, due to this fiasco. I don't know why I didn't come over sooner, to tell the truth!

[dibbler]

Count me in as another person who has moved to these forums from the Groundspeak ones, due to this fiasco. I don't know why I didn't come over sooner, to tell the truth!

And another person to have seen the light. Im here too. :)

[Happy Humphrey]

I had enough of GSP's tactics a while ago, The Hornet's ban is just the cherry on top for me. I've said all I have to say "over there", the sooner my caches are listed elsewhere, the better.
Don't get the forum mixed up with geocaching: they are very different games. If you don't get on with the forum for whatever reason, just ignore it and post here instead. Or just go caching!
It's up to you, of course, but listing your caches elsewhere is rather pointless as a protest, IMO. Remember that the vast majority of cachers never, or rarely, visit the forums so they will have no idea why your caches have disappeared: they will just be a bit disappointed. :dunno: :confused: :(

[Stuey]

Don't get the forum mixed up with geocaching: they are very different games. If you don't get on with the forum for whatever reason, just ignore it and post here instead. Or just go caching!
It's up to you, of course, but listing your caches elsewhere is rather pointless as a protest, IMO. Remember that the vast majority of cachers never, or rarely, visit the forums so they will have no idea why your caches have disappeared: they will just be a bit disappointed. :dunno: :confused: :(

The other thing worth thinking about is that listing your caches on other cache listing sites will mean they are much less likely to be found, if at all. No-one can argue that Geocaching.com is not the Daddy of all listing sites.

[Us 4 and Jess]

Well wasn't that well timed my thread was closed at 8.45 PM (roughly) :mad:

and Peter's ban finishes at 11.20 PM (roughly) :D

Makes ya wonder :dunno:

Maybe they think if they give him 24 hours to cool down he will be in a good mood :eek:

M:D

[uktim]

Well wasn't that well timed my thread was closed at 8.45 PM (roughly) :mad:

and Peter's ban finishes at 11.20 PM (roughly) :D

Makes ya wonder :dunno:

Maybe they think if they give him 24 hours to cool down he will be in a good mood :eek:

M:D

Unless I'm really missing something the idiots that got the thread closed with their mindless trouble stirring were British?

Do you really think it's surprising that things got shut down with that standard of behaviour?

[Us 4 and Jess]

Unless I'm really missing something the idiots that got the thread closed with their mindless trouble stirring were British?

Do you really think it's surprising that things got shut down with that standard of behaviour?

I did not and state whether the person who closed the thread was English, American or Chinese :mad: I said "they" I know who closed the thread.

And yes I do think a small amount of the comments were very close to the knuckle for a family friendly forum. :mad:

Mandy:D

[uktim]

I did not and state whether the person who closed the thread was English, American or Chinese :mad: I said "they" I know who closed the thread.

And yes I do think a small amount of the comments were very close to the knuckle for a family friendly forum. :mad:

Mandy:D

I was referring to the people who mindlessly pushed the limits so hard that the thread got closed rather than the poor mug who had to make the decision to take action to stop their stirring :(

These emoticons are a bit poor can't GAGB get some better ones :rolleyes:

[jacobite]

Hi Happy Humphrey & Stuey, I appreciate your comments and concerns. My decision to list and log my caches on my own site isn’t one that has been taken lightly. The decision was taken some time ago, and if it were not for the “3 day ban” thread on the GSP forum, it would still be under my hat (so to speak).
I’ve thought long and hard about the impact this would have on the community and myself, but regrettably, my lack of confidence in GSP leaves me no choice but to take this course of action.
Please understand, this is not a protest, nor a “look at me I’m different” stance. This is a decision based solely on my principles being apposed to GSP policy.

I know I risk backlash from some parts of the community, but I would hope that the community would understand why this decision has been taken. I’ve always tried to support the UK geocaching community, and will continue to do so.

[studlyone]

I did not and state whether the person who closed the thread was English, American or Chinese :mad: I said "they" I know who closed the thread.

And yes I do think a small amount of the comments were very close to the knuckle for a family friendly forum. :mad:

Mandy:DMandy the thread was quite rightly closed due to the way that some people at the end turned it into a personal attack on one of the Mods. Regardless of whether the mod had made a right or wrong decision in recent times an outward personalo attack on them was bound to get the thread closed down. Its almost as if it was a deliberate ploy to get the thread closed to further stir things up.

Mandarin quite rightly posted a warning about keeping the thread palatable and it was blatantly ignored leaving her no option but to close the thread.

[jacobite]

Its almost as if it was a deliberate ploy to get the thread closed to further stir things up.


Aye, it looks that way to me.
I think Manradin's 24hr shut down was justified.

[The Hornet]

Well my ban is over and I'll be saying hello over there shortly. Thanks for your messages of support over here, it meant a lot to me. For those who support the way Groundspeak implemented their ban, I endorse your right to take a contrary view to the majority of postings.

At least here I'm in a position to defend myself against some of the things being attributed to me.

Finally I think that the GSP thread had probably reached the end of it's usefulness (some might argue that it never was useful, but that's another matter) and on balance I think that mandarin was right to close it before anyone else got themselves a 3 day ban. I'm certain that the timing was purely coincidental.

[uktim]

Hi Happy Humphrey & Stuey, I appreciate your comments and concerns. My decision to list and log my caches on my own site isn’t one that has been taken lightly. The decision was taken some time ago, and if it were not for the “3 day ban” thread on the GSP forum, it would still be under my hat (so to speak).
I’ve thought long and hard about the impact this would have on the community and myself, but regrettably, my lack of confidence in GSP leaves me no choice but to take this course of action.
Please understand, this is not a protest, nor a “look at me I’m different” stance. This is a decision based solely on my principles being apposed to GSP policy.

I know I risk backlash from some parts of the community, but I would hope that the community would understand why this decision has been taken. I’ve always tried to support the UK geocaching community, and will continue to do so.

Are your principles going to extend as far as refusing to find GSP listed caches?

[Happy Humphrey]

Hi Happy Humphrey & Stuey, I appreciate your comments and concerns. My decision to list and log my caches on my own site isn’t one that has been taken lightly. The decision was taken some time ago, and if it were not for the “3 day ban” thread on the GSP forum, it would still be under my hat (so to speak).
I’ve thought long and hard about the impact this would have on the community and myself, but regrettably, my lack of confidence in GSP leaves me no choice but to take this course of action.
Please understand, this is not a protest, nor a “look at me I’m different” stance. This is a decision based solely on my principles being apposed to GSP policy.

I know I risk backlash from some parts of the community, but I would hope that the community would understand why this decision has been taken. I’ve always tried to support the UK geocaching community, and will continue to do so.
I don't think that it's a case of "backlash", more like mild bewilderment. But I'm not sure what cache listings have to do with the forum problems. Perhaps you're taking this action for some other reason than the forum moderating policy? I'm not accusing you of anything, nor am I trying to stop you, but I can't see exactly why you're doing this. If you're determined to go ahead, then no need to try and justify it further and I wish you the best of luck with the website.

I know that Robin Lovelock set up his own cache listing site after an argument with Jeremy, but that was quite a bit more serious (he was totally banned, not just suspended from the forum).

[Simply Paul]

I was watching the other forum, but unable to post anything, when the thread was closed down. I don't know who these people (more than one person) were; I only saw Andy&BeckyRiley pushing his luck and was quick to warn him what was going to happen by email. He seemed intent on getting a ban and mandarin give him just what he wanted- I think she did the right thing by closing that thread for 24 hours, and by issuing an official warning before responding to Andy's repeated infringements. You have to have SOME rules! It sort of highlights the difference between proper process and the sort of rough (in)justice handed out to Peter and I. I shall be having my say (within forum guidelines) as soon as I get back there... I'm looking forward to what uktim might have to say about some of the things I'll have to say about him, to him, there :)

[The Hornet]

Why not continue the discussion here, and now?

[jacobite]

Are your principles going to extend as far as refusing to find GSP listed caches?

Geocaches are the property of the cache owner, not GSP!
I'm not going to stop finding caches just because they're listed on GSP (or because it feeds your needs).
Please try and keep up with the program, read my posts. What I've said is, I will be listing my caches on my own site, and logging my finds on my own site.


If I felt you had anything useful to say, I would like to continue this debate with you. However, I beleive your behaviour on the GSP forum and here, is simply designed to be antagonistic.
I would be grateful if you would refrain from asking me any questions in future, as I will not respond to them.

[jacobite]

Perhaps you're taking this action for some other reason than the forum moderating policy?

Thanks for pointing this out.
My decision isn't based on forum moderation policy, in fact I support the forum mods and reviewers in there fair and balanced approach, regardless of what GSP instruct them to do.

My decision is based on GSP's unwillingness to listen and repond to the concerns of the UK community, as I feel they've adopted a "carry on regardless" attitude towards us.

I'm glad you pointed this out, as I'd hate think that folks thought my decision was a snub to UK mods/reviewers.

[Wadders]

Geocaches are the property of the cache owner, not GSP!
I'm not going to stop finding caches just because they're listed on GSP (or because it feeds your needs).
Please try and keep up with the program, read my posts. What I've said is, I will be listing my caches on my own site, and logging my finds on my own site.


If I felt you had anything useful to say, I would like to continue this debate with you. However, I beleive your behaviour on the GSP forum and here, is simply designed to be antagonistic.
I would be grateful if you would refrain from asking me any questions in future, as I will not respond to them.

Jacobite,
I have great empathy with your reasons and have come close myself to archiving my caches and relisting them somewhere else, hence my question some time ago about terracaching and navicache joining forces to make a worthwhile alternative site to GSP. However i never did, due to a couple of reasons; 1/ I found that the process was not a case of copy and paste across my caches. 2/ I want them to be found by the masses and not once or twice a year.
However it is your choice, your cache, and I for one would respect you for whatever choice you make.:socool:

As for your comments about UKtim, I'm sure that no one would try to be like that to fellow cachers, (Would they?) at least i hope that it is the case, but i have to agree that he does come across that way sometimes.:confused:
Perhaps feedback like this can be taken on board and we can all remain happy people:D

[Happy Humphrey]

Thanks for pointing this out.
My decision isn't based on forum moderation policy, in fact I support the forum mods and reviewers in there fair and balanced approach, regardless of what GSP instruct them to do.

My decision is based on GSP's unwillingness to listen and repond to the concerns of the UK community, as I feel they've adopted a "carry on regardless" attitude towards us.

I'm glad you pointed this out, as I'd hate think that folks thought my decision was a snub to UK mods/reviewers.
Just to clarify: you support the moderators of the forum (US,UK-based and wherever else), and your decision is nothing to do with that. Your issue is with Groundspeak not listening to UK requests. Sorry to drag this out, I've been slow getting there! I would point out in their defence that Groundspeak consists of a handful of geocaching enthusiasts/ software developers, and as far as I can see are unlikely to be capable of stamping out resistance in the UK :eek:.
https://img.geocaching.com/cache/log/display/f76f5097-f603-4d78-8f4a-e922fc485e30.jpg

(HH visiting the centre of World Geocaching dominance!)

[Happy Humphrey]

Just so you don't think I'm some sort of Groundspeak spy, here's a link that you should NEVER post on a Groundspeak forum - perhaps I should have even made a sock puppet account to post it here!

http://www.gpss.tripoduk.com/geocache/

...that's what a personal geocaching listing site looks like.

[Mrs Blorenge]

https://img.geocaching.com/cache/log/display/f76f5097-f603-4d78-8f4a-e922fc485e30.jpg

(HH visiting the centre of World Geocaching dominance!)

So that's HH - I always thought you were your avatar :D

I almost hesitate to ask this... but is that MrsHH with you?... or a member of Groundspeak?

[jacobite]

Thanks for the link HH. I searched the net look for sites similar to mine, hoping that I could get some tips on how to go about things, also layout ideas. I wasn't aware of Robin and June's site, so thanks for pointing it out.

My site is still under construction (and I ain't no web designer), it can be viewed, but I'm not sure whether I can put a link to it in this forum (so I won't, until I know otherwise).

You are correct, my problem is with GSP HQ.

[Belplasca]

Well, it was Robin & June's site that brought me to geocaching, and Peter (The Hornet) was the first cacher that I spoke to in person at a cache meet near Aylesbury.

He leant me his GPS receiver so I could find the cache that had been place for the event. And he also seemed quite delighted to have engineered a seating plan that had Robin sitting next to Tim (of Tim & June bear fame).

Of course, I didn't know any of the politics at the time, but weren't T&J involved with GAGB? :)

Anyway, for an infraction onthe geocoin forum, wouldn't a suspension from the geocoin forum have been more appropriate? Total Forum suspension is quite wrong, since the post did not break the rules of the other forums, did it?

Bob

[Happy Humphrey]

[IMG]I almost hesitate to ask this... but is that MrsHH with you?... or a member of Groundspeak?
It's OK - that's only Mrs. HH. :) She's a veteran of many caches worldwide, a Mega Event, a Christmas Event...but would prefer to be a muggle most of the time!

[Happy Humphrey]

He leant me his GPS receiver so I could find the cache that had been place for the event. And he also seemed quite delighted to have engineered a seating plan that had Robin sitting next to Tim (of Tim & June bear fame).

Of course, I didn't know any of the politics at the time, but weren't T&J involved with GAGM? :)
Bob
That's all before my time, and although I'm still keeping a keen eye out for potential T&J Bear caches I haven't managed to kidnap one of the blighters yet! I don't know about GAGM either. Does Robin still keep in touch with other geocachers? I looked for one of his caches earlier in the year but it seems to have disappeared.

[uktim]

Jacobite,
I have great empathy with your reasons and have come close myself to archiving my caches and relisting them somewhere else, hence my question some time ago about terracaching and navicache joining forces to make a worthwhile alternative site to GSP. However i never did, due to a couple of reasons; 1/ I found that the process was not a case of copy and paste across my caches. 2/ I want them to be found by the masses and not once or twice a year.
However it is your choice, your cache, and I for one would respect you for whatever choice you make.:socool:

As for your comments about UKtim, I'm sure that no one would try to be like that to fellow cachers, (Would they?) at least i hope that it is the case, but i have to agree that he does come across that way sometimes.:confused:
Perhaps feedback like this can be taken on board and we can all remain happy people:D

I most defininitely wouldn't make any postings to be antagonistic. Unfortunately there are some members of the "UK community" who seem to find it rather hard to accept that we don't all hold the same views :(

I speak up and say what I think, what you see is what you get. To my mind that is a far better way to conduct oneself than the sort of half-arsed attitude that makes a vainglorious show of moving their caches away from GS whilst still expecting to log other peoples caches that are listed there :confused:

[The Hornet]

And he also seemed quite delighted to have engineered a seating plan that had Robin sitting next to Tim (of Tim & June bear fame).
In my defence ;) I would say that T&J at that time were leading lights in the UK caching scene being the reviewers for most of the UK caches. I knew that there was a problem between GSP & Robin and I thought that perhaps having a chat over a couple of pints might "break the ice" and lead to a reconciliation. Of course I was not aware of the full facts at the time and it all came to nothing.

[The Hornet]

I most defininitely wouldn't make any postings to be antagonistic. :eek: I think a lot of people on the various forums devoted to caching in the UK would be surprised to hear that.

Unfortunately there are some members of the "UK community" who seem to find it rather hard to accept that we don't all hold the same views :(One sheep farmer in particular.


I speak up and say what I think, what you see is what you get. To my mind that is a far better way to conduct oneself than the sort of half-arsed attitude that makes a vainglorious show of moving their caches away from GS whilst still expecting to log other peoples caches that are listed there :confused:Describing people who hold different views to you and who have decided on a particular course of action "half arsed" and "vainglorious" is hardly necessary.

Even if you believe that you have the support and/or agreement of the silent majority of UK cachers, please respect the views of the obvious majority of active forum members who clearly disagree with you.

[uktim]

:eek: I think a lot of people on the various forums devoted to caching in the UK would be surprised to hear that.
One sheep farmer in particular.

Describing people who hold different views to you and who have decided on a particular course of action "half arsed" and "vainglorious" is hardly necessary.

Even if you believe that you have the support and/or agreement of the silent majority of UK cachers, please respect the views of the obvious majority of active forum members who clearly disagree with you.

I have no problems with folks holding different views BUT we must all accept that our views are nothing more than personal views. The attitudes that I dislike are the ones that play on "cultural differences" to support a point. Many of those who use this reasoning quite clearly fail to comprehend the diverse nature of the culture they are championing.

The terms half-arsed and vainglorious were used to highlight the fact that we can all make sweeping generalisations. There are no shortage of folks in the "UK community" who use the terms "antagonistic", "troll", "sock puppet" etc as an easy alternative to addressing my distaste for attempts to create or nurture cultural divides. There aren't many people who I would have used those terms about but for Jacobite to accuse anyone else of being antagonistic appears to be a clear cut case of "pot calling kettle".

To make that accusation in a public forum and then attempt to close communications with a request not to ask him any more questions is rude and ignorant in any culture. If he hasn't got the backbone to defend or discuss such claims he shouldn't be making them in the first place :mad:

[Bill D (wwh)]

jacobite wrote:
My site is still under construction (and I ain't no web designer), it can be viewed, but I'm not sure whether I can put a link to it in this forum (so I won't, until I know otherwise).Certainly you can - go ahead.


Belplasca wrote:
Of course, I didn't know any of the politics at the time, but weren't T&J involved with GAGB? I'm sure you know this, Bob, but for those who don't, Tim & June were amongst the founder members of GAGB.

[Bill D (wwh)]

uktim wrote:
I speak up and say what I think, what you see is what you get.That isn't always the best approach to take in forums. Or indeed out there in the real world either, unless you really want to upset people and cause a punch-up in the pub. I'm quite sure I'm not the only person who's finding these exchanges a little tiresome. And I agree absolutely with Peter's comment about the use of the terms "half-arsed" and "vainglorious".

[uktim]

That isn't always the best approach to take in forums. Or indeed out there in the real world either, unless you really want to upset people and cause a punch-up in the pub. I'm quite sure I'm not the only person who's finding these exchanges a little tiresome. And I agree absolutely with Peter's comment about the use of the terms "half-arsed" and "vainglorious".

Can I presume that you feel the same way about some of the jingoistic anti-GSP views expressed here and on the other forum?

TBH I feel that some of the folks expressing these views must be exceedingly naive short-sighted if they're surprised or hurt if people take a dislike to their views. No-one should be allowed to use any "community" to nurture division between different nationalities or cultures.

[Bill D (wwh)]

Can I presume that you feel the same way about some of the jingoistic anti-GSP views expressed here and on the other forum?

TBH I feel that some of the folks expressing these views must be exceedingly naive short-sighted if they're surprised or hurt if people take a dislike to their views. No-one should be allowed to use any "community" to nurture division between different nationalities or cultures.
No, you can't presume that. Using emotive terms like jingoistic is effectively putting words into my mouth that I haven't used.

I fully understand why many cachers are feeling anti-GS at the moment. And given that the issues that have led to that have been actions by an American-owned organization against UK cachers, it's hardly surprising that some people should be feeling nationalistic about it. To expect otherwise would be the naive and short-sighted thing.

I agree that no-one should be using any community to nurture division between nationalities or cultures, but I have no problem at all with people expressing their opinions on what they perceive, rightly or wrongly, to be divisions of that nature.

[The Hornet]

I find Bill is expressing feelings identical to my own but in a much better way than I could have put them.

To further explore this "Anti-American" or "Nationalistic" accusation, I would point out to those new to the UK forum scene that over the past few years, almost all the real trouble "over there", including the loss of two long time reviewers/moderators has been instigated, or at the very least exacerbated, by a small group of people who happen to live in one part of the world.

As I was closely involved some people (one person?) might argue that I am taking a blinkered view. That is their (his?) right, but however the trouble developed it is a simple matter of historical fact where it started.

When that forum was moderated by locals (yes even before I came on the scene and also subsequently) it had an enviable reputation for being a very friendly place and definitely lacking in the usual angst found in many other forums. Let's hope that situation can re-establish itself once a full UK moderating team is in place.

It is showing hopeful signs with recent posts being sensibly edited rather than being subject to harsher measures.

[uktim]

No, you can't presume that. Using emotive terms like jingoistic is effectively putting words into my mouth that I haven't used.

I fully understand why many cachers are feeling anti-GS at the moment. And given that the issues that have led to that have been actions by an American-owned organization against UK cachers, it's hardly surprising that some people should be feeling nationalistic about it. To expect otherwise would be the naive and short-sighted thing.

I agree that no-one should be using any community to nurture division between nationalities or cultures, but I have no problem at all with people expressing their opinions on what they perceive, rightly or wrongly, to be divisions of that nature.

Or is it a case of seeing the obvious? As I understand it GS have asked for the UK to nbe reviewed to the same standards as the rest of the world. One of the joys of geocaching is it's glabal nature and the links that it creates around the world. I find it hard to understand why people are so desperate for the UK to be treated differently in some way.

I'll ask the same question as I've asked before and am still waiting for an answer to. Can anyone give some examples of the problems that GS have allegedly created?

Anagrams of swearwords don't cut it IMO. There are people in our culture that think that sort of behaviour is unecessary and unacceptable, it's not just a UK/US culture thing.

The only other one that has been mentioned is caches in drystone walls. I can understand the reasoning behind a local rule but surely this is for convenience rather than a huge difference betwen the UK and the US. It''s easier to have a blanket ban than for reviewerss to have to check that caches are well hidden and have a good enough hint to stop ill-disciplined cachers doing damage whilst searching for the box.

I'm open to examples but the best anyone seems to be able to offer is "if you can't see it we can't help you" or words to that effect.

[uktim]

I find Bill is expressing feelings identical to my own but in a much better way than I could have put them.

To further explore this "Anti-American" or "Nationalistic" accusation, I would point out to those new to the UK forum scene that over the past few years, almost all the real trouble "over there", including the loss of two long time reviewers/moderators has been instigated, or at the very least exacerbated, by a small group of people who happen to live in one part of the world.

As I was closely involved some people (one person?) might argue that I am taking a blinkered view. That is their (his?) right, but however the trouble developed it is a simple matter of historical fact where it started.

When that forum was moderated by locals (yes even before I came on the scene and also subsequently) it had an enviable reputation for being a very friendly place and definitely lacking in the usual angst found in many other forums. Let's hope that situation can re-establish itself once a full UK moderating team is in place.

It is showing hopeful signs with recent posts being sensibly edited rather than being subject to harsher measures.

There may well be some instigators and stirrers in the US. But I'm sure I've noticed a few in the UK as well.

As for any disagreements you may have had they should have been tackled at the time. Once someone resigns the decicion has been made. It's time to draw a line under things stop making veiled references in public to problems of past and let the new reviewers and moderators get on with their roles.

We're all grateful for the hard work you did and we're all a little sad that you went BUT harking back to "historical fact" is only going to keep old wounds open and make things unpleasant for the new incumbants :(

[dodgydaved]

There may well be some instigators and stirrers in the US. But I'm sure I've noticed a few in the UK as well.

As for any disagreements you may have had they should have been tackled at the time. Once someone resigns the decicion has been made. It's time to draw a line under things stop making veiled references in public to problems of past and let the new reviewers and moderators get on with their roles.

We're all grateful for the hard work you did and we're all a little sad that you went BUT harking back to "historical fact" is only going to keep old wounds open and make things unpleasant for the new incumbants :(


Sorry Tim but that is a load of carp ;).

Our resignation was the result of the refusal of some GSP volunteer reivewers to accept that there could be UK specific cacche guidleines and the gross over moderation of UK forums by moderators from elsewhere who appeared to have no understanding of some UK customs and social mores.

As a result of the response in the forum to our resignation some of the local issues were, thankfully, resolved. The over moderation issue is still apparent as shown by the posting ban Peter recieved without the moderator following the stadard protocols.

In discussing the issue here, away from any GSP moderated forum, we are in fact trying to do so in a way that should not harm the new UK team - to whom we wish every success.

Finally you cannot begin to understand the unpleasantness we had to go through, and criticism we recieved at the hands of those few overseas based volunteer reviewers in the weeks leading up to our decision - maybe then you would undestand the anger and sorrow we both, I believe, still feel.

So, how about shutting up for a bit, eh Kidder?

Dave

[uktim]

Sorry Tim but that is a load of carp ;).

Our resignation was the result of the refusal of some GSP volunteer reivewers to accept that there could be UK specific cacche guidleines and the gross over moderation of UK forums by moderators from elsewhere who appeared to have no understanding of some UK customs and social mores.

As a result of the response in the forum to our resignation some of the local issues were, thankfully, resolved. The over moderation issue is still apparent as shown by the posting ban Peter recieved without the moderator following the stadard protocols.

In discussing the issue here, away from any GSP moderated forum, we are in fact trying to do so in a way that should not harm the new UK team - to whom we wish every success.

Finally you cannot begin to understand the unpleasantness we had to go through, and criticism we recieved at the hands of those few overseas based volunteer reviewers in the weeks leading up to our decision - maybe then you would undestand the anger and sorrow we both, I believe, still feel.

So, how about shutting up for a bit, eh Kidder?

Dave

I'll make two observations.

The first is that some of us have been through a similar experience with other organisations and are speaking from experience when we say there is no merit in poking at old wounds :(

The second is that if we are truly "discussing the issue" then all UK cachers have a place in that discussion and no-one should be telling fellow cachers to shut up :( If you can't listen to the opinions of others then it's best not to make any pretence of engaging in discussion.

[dodgydaved]

I'll make two observations.

The first is that some of us have been through a similar experience with other organisations and are speaking from experience when we say there is no merit in poking at old wounds :(

The second is that if we are truly "discussing the issue" then all UK cachers have a place in that discussion and no-one should be telling fellow cachers to shut up :( If you can't listen to the opinions of others then it's best not to make any pretence of engaging in discussion.


....................Well, that really told me didn't it:cheers:

[Wadders]

....................Well, that really told me didn't it:cheers:

Yep;)

[jacobite]

Certainly you can - go ahead.


Thanks for that, Bill. If any wants to have a look at it, give me some feedback or comments, feel free to PM me and I'll send the hosts URL.

[Us 4 and Jess]

Did I just read that right in the UK forums (can I say that here :eek:)

Moss had just received a formal warning for telling UK Tim to .. and I qoute "wind ya neck in"

Is this not getting bliddy ridiculous :dunno:

Mandy :D

[Mrs Blorenge]

Did I just read that right in the UK forums (can I say that here :eek:)

Moss had just received a formal warning for telling UK Tim to .. and I qoute "wind ya neck in"

Is this not getting bliddy ridiculous :dunno:

Mandy :D

That was what you saw after the post had been edited ;)

[Rambling Meanderers]

So, how about shutting up for a bit, eh Kidder?

Dave




The second is that if we are truly "discussing the issue" then all UK cachers have a place in that discussion and no-one should be telling fellow cachers to shut up :( If you can't listen to the opinions of others then it's best not to make any pretence of engaging in discussion.


....................Well, that really told me didn't it:cheers:

Well that exchange did make me laugh! Come on uktim, this is getting ridiculous. I got fed up of the GSP forums because pretty much whenever you post something you do so in an antagonistic way! I thought it was just me, so I checked back your previous posts. Nope, I was right - never seen someone pick so many arguments! Read them yourself if you don't believe me! As my Gran used to say, it's not what you say, it's the way that you say it...

[Us 4 and Jess]

That was what you saw after the post had been edited ;)

Yep I just came back to say I had noticed a "naughty" bit edited out, thanks for that Lucilla ;)

He's a buddun I would watch him :rolleyes:

Mandy :D

[Mrs Blorenge]

Yep I just came back to say I had noticed a "naughty" bit edited out, thanks for that Lucilla ;)

He's a buddun I would watch him :rolleyes:

Mandy :D

bud.dun? hmmmmm Is that a personal attack? :eek:

Is that permissible over here? ;)

[Happy Humphrey]

As my Gran used to say, it's not what you say, it's the way that you say it...
Exactly...

[The Hornet]

Come on uktim, this is getting ridiculous. I got fed up of the GSP forums because pretty much whenever you post something you do so in an antagonistic way!There was a time when I thought it was just me that uktim was disagreeing with. It seemed that every time I posted a comment, he was there to disagree with me. Now I know he disagrees with just about everyone. :)

[minstrelcat]

Mr Tim (or can I call you UK?)

I consider myself part of the less-vocal majority. I am a firm believer in free speech and a person's right to disagree with someone else.

But I also believe in 'community' and how it benefits everyone to be reasonably natured and respectful of others.

The fact is, Mr Tim, you are antagonising a lot of people (including some that are reading but aren't posting here) with your constant disagreements and argumentative tone. I can only think that either a) you are deliberately trying to wind people up, or b) you are genuinely unaware of the effect of what you write. If it is b) then I truly feel sorry for you.

I appreciate that some others are replying to your posts in the same manner and that isn't helping either. Although I'm not claiming uktim is a troll, I'm really hoping that other people decide to stop feeding him

Lisa

[uktim]

There was a time when I thought it was just me that uktim was disagreeing with. It seemed that every time I posted a comment, he was there to disagree with me. Now I know he disagrees with just about everyone. :)

Look beyond who I disagree with. Can you spot the trend in what I disagree with?

[Bill D (wwh)]

Look beyond who I disagree with. Can you spot the trend in what I disagree with?
Life, the universe and everything?

[Wadders]

Look beyond who I disagree with. Can you spot the trend in what I disagree with?

Yeah....Everything and everyone!!

[Lost in Space]

42

[uktim]

Yeah....Everything and everyone!!

Rather like your good self then :)

I suppose I could do the current PC thing in this neck of the woods and critcise GSP at every opportunity :)

[Happy Humphrey]

I suppose I could do the current PC thing in this neck of the woods and critcise GSP at every opportunity :)
Looks like I'm not very PC then! :(;)

[Wadders]

Rather like your good self then :)

I suppose I could do the current PC thing in this neck of the woods and critcise GSP at every opportunity :)

Nope you aint like me at all! :D to start with i quite like me ;)

I respect others views, even if i disagree with them, and I respect their right to express them, but I don't respond in an antagonistic way to every B***** comment that is made on here. Is there any comment that you have expressed a positive opinon.....if there is I must have missed it and I would offer a spot prize to anyone that can point one out to me!!!:D

It is well known that I have issues with Groundspeak, but then I have been on here long enough, (unlike others) and I do know some of the history about the way that they have dealt with some issues and the previous reviewers in the UK forums. Do I know all of what went on...No, nor do I profess to.

There are a lot of great people on here whos views I listen to and respect,:o and trust me Tim you are not one of them.:(
You are getting or should i say "have already " got a reputation for replying in an antagonistic way.(and i'm being polite)
If that is your aim or you are proud of that, then all I can say is good luck to you.
If that is not something that you are proud of, (and i hope you are not)
then I would respectfully suggest that you look at what you type and the way you type it before you press the "Submit reply" button!!

We all have differing views, and we all have the right to express them, but there are ways of doing it without winding half the forum up.
Now as someone said earlier on "wind yer bloody neck in" and i'll add, have a beer and chill out for christ sake:beer:

[Moss Trooper]

Nope you aint like me at all! :D to start with i quite like me ;)

I respect others views, even if i disagree with them, and I respect their right to express them, but I don't respond in an antagonistic way to every B***** comment that is made on here. Is there any comment that you have expressed a positive opinon.....if there is I must have missed it and I would offer a spot prize to anyone that can point one out to me!!!:D

It is well known that I have issues with Groundspeak, but then I have been on here long enough, (unlike others) and I do know some of the history about the way that they have dealt with some issues and the previous reviewers in the UK forums. Do I know all of what went on...No, nor do I profess to.

There are a lot of great people on here whos views I listen to and respect,:o and trust me Tim you are not one of them.:(
You are getting or should i say "have already " got a reputation for replying in an antagonistic way.(and i'm being polite)
If that is your aim or you are proud of that, then all I can say is good luck to you.
If that is not something that you are proud of, (and i hope you are not)
then I would respectfully suggest that you look at what you type and the way you type it before you press the "Submit reply" button!!

We all have differing views, and we all have the right to express them, but there are ways of doing it without winding half the forum up.
Now as someone said earlier on "wind yer bloody neck in" and i'll add, have a beer and chill out for christ sake:beer:

Ere Wadders if yer going to quote me get it right puulease.. I didnt swear :D:D

An for those who would like to know the naughty that was edited out .. it was prat next time I'll wash me mooth out :beer::beer::beer: several times hic!

[Wadders]

Ere Wadders if yer going to quote me get it right puulease.. I didnt swear :D:D

An for those who would like to know the naughty that was edited out .. it was prat next time I'll wash me mooth out :beer::beer::beer: several times hic!

I do applogise MT, when i wanted to quote it, i could not find it again.:p

[PopUpPirate]

You are getting or should i say "have already " got a reputation for replying in an antagonistic way.

Seconded :) Great post Terry!