London caches archived

[Happy Humphrey]

:eek: I wonder what the cause was? It looks like Jonnytuna has taken offence after a forcible archiving of a couple of caches (e.g. https://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LUID=0c69f2f4-b259-4d99-a40c-0b6161ea82d3). Anyone know what's behind it? It seems that a good proportion of London caches have gone.

https://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx?u=jonnytuna

[The Klever Boys]

I've been wondering the same thing.
I saw that "the big stick" had descended on St. Pancras, but it's a real tragedy that JT has archived his caches..some of them were crackers..

A sad day for those who want to do some caches in London, especially foreign visitors..

[Wadders]

It is a shame indeed, I hav'nt done them all;)

Perhaps it's the person that got hit with the "Big stick" bit back. I would be interested to know what the problem with the cache was though.

[Happy Humphrey]

It is a shame indeed, I hav'nt done them all;)

Perhaps it the person that got hit with the "Big stick" bit back. I would be interested to know what the problem with the cache was though.
Yes, it's not just being nosey. There's a need to learn from this incident (if there has been an incident). If someone wants to reinstate some of these caches, they'll have to know what the problem was (if any), or else they could be wasting their time.

[Brenin Tegeingl]

Can we please correct one thing before it escalates into something it isn't


Perhaps it the person that got hit with the "Big stick" bit back.

The "Big Stick" being referred to in Miss Jenns tag line, is in fact a "Hiking Stick" given as a gift. And not a Big Stick used to poke, hit or threaten anyone! And any reference that it is, is being offensive!

As anyone who has physically spoken to Miss Jenn will testify, she is a very nice person.

Deci

[Bear and Ragged]

Presumably, with the Olympics coming to London in 2012 things will start to be tightened up, security wise, ready for the games..?

Is this another concern, that we (as cachers) should be taking on board.

If the caches above have been archived due to "Bomb Scare" issues, things will become even tighter closer to the games themselves.

Will we be allowed into London with a GPSr? https://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif [And that, I hope, is a tongue in cheek question!]

[Simply Paul]

I sent the following email to MissJenn (and her Big Stick) earlier. If I hear anything back, and I'm allowed under the official secrets act to report what she says, I'll post it here.

Re: Mass London archives.

Hi MissJenn. As an owner of a London cache I'm rather concerned about these; can you be any more specific about what the issue is/was so I can consider whether I should leave my own cache active?

Thanks very much in advance.

Paul

[jacobite]

Can we please correct one thing before it escalates into something it isn't



The "Big Stick" being referred to in Miss Jenns tag line, is in fact a "Hiking Stick" given as a gift. And not a Big Stick used to poke, hit or threaten anyone! And any reference that it is, is being offensive!

As anyone who has physically spoken to Miss Jenn will testify, she is a very nice person.

Deci

Very well put, heart felt sentiment.
Unfortunately, this doesn't answer questions that may well effect all urban caches in the UK. Like, Who contacted GSP in regards to the archived London caches? Why does GSP feel that they needed archiving, (which I believe was done without first consulting the cache setter, who did have permission for the cache to be there in the first place)? Why does the cache setter feel the need to archive most of his other caches, in response to GSP's actions (only a question he can answer)?

I know that some members have sent emails to GSP asking for clarification on this issue, but due to GSP's continued unwillingness to give members adequate responses to even the simplest of questions, I wouldn't expect GSP to respond in a manner that some members find exceptable (if at all).
Given your postion within GSP, would you be kind enough to ask GSP for clarification on this issue, so's members with urban caches could decide if any type of action is required on their caches?

[Bear and Ragged]

And.
It's not that long ago that caches in certain parts of London had to have a description given to the police (search teams) for when they were carrying out searches for suspicious things...

link (https://www.gagb.org.uk/agreement_view.php?p=40)

Is the archiving to do with this, or another matter?


(Is it possible to get this and the thread on the GS site into one thread? ie we only discuss it on one or the other thread))

[Happy Humphrey]

Can we please correct one thing before it escalates into something it isn't



The "Big Stick" being referred to in Miss Jenns tag line, is in fact a "Hiking Stick" given as a gift. And not a Big Stick used to poke, hit or threaten anyone! And any reference that it is, is being offensive!

As anyone who has physically spoken to Miss Jenn will testify, she is a very nice person.

Deci
I've met Miss Jenn and she's very nice indeed! :wub:

But I think we should consider whether we can help prevent a repeat of what sounds like a bomb scare. And finding out the exact details will be the first step.

[dodgydaved]

Can we please correct one thing before it escalates into something it isn't



The "Big Stick" being referred to in Miss Jenns tag line, is in fact a "Hiking Stick" given as a gift. And not a Big Stick used to poke, hit or threaten anyone! And any reference that it is, is being offensive!

As anyone who has physically spoken to Miss Jenn will testify, she is a very nice person.

Deci

Dave, I could not be in any greater agreement with you over the matter of MissJenn.

I have had many an email conversation with her - and she is a nice and very sensitive person.

However, considering the function she seems to need to exercise with relation to UK caches and forum threads, from time to time, and considering there IS an ambiguity to her avatar tag - whether any one wishes there to be so or not - perhaps she could demonstrate her sensitivity by modifying it to remove that ambiguity, for as long as that exists people are going to comment on it.

[Wadders]

Can we please correct one thing before it escalates into something it isn't



The "Big Stick" being referred to in Miss Jenns tag line, is in fact a "Hiking Stick" given as a gift. And not a Big Stick used to poke, hit or threaten anyone! And any reference that it is, is being offensive!

As anyone who has physically spoken to Miss Jenn will testify, she is a very nice person.

Deci

Just to put the record straight, I was not in any way refering to Miss jens avatar:mad: so please don't jump to conclusions that i am having a go at Miss jen personally,......i was not:)

I was refering to the way that Groundspeak keep there customers in order!!

Now that more info has come out, i see it as more of a shame, there are some very good caches archived there, i do hope that some are adopted.

[Icenians]

Am I missing something here?

From the quick look I had at the archived caches only one appears to have been archived by Groundspeak and the reason given was at the request of the authorities.

The others seem to have been archived by the owner, a different cacher, who seems to have decided himself that it's not suitable for London. Not sure where Miss Jenn comes into the majority of these.

[Wadders]

Am I missing something here?

From the quick look I had at the archived caches only one appears to have been archived by Groundspeak and the reason given was at the request of the authorities.

The others seem to have been archived by the owner, a different cacher, who seems to have decided himself that it's not suitable for London. Not sure where Miss Jenn comes into the majority of these.

I think 3 in total were archived by Grounspeak, and the owner archived the rest:(

[Brenin Tegeingl]

Miss Jenn Archived 3 caches after Groundspeak received a request that they be removed by the Authorities. As the person making the request was a reputable source, Groundspeak actioned these requests.

The cache owner then decided that because of what had happened, he felt Central London was no longer a suitable place for caches. And Archived his caches


Due to the source of the request Groundspeak had no option but to Archive the caches.

As London rolls towards the 2012 Olympics, security within in London will be progressively tightened. Which could possibly see more request for proof of permission before publication with in the London Region.

[Happy Humphrey]

I'm not sure who the "Authorities" are, but from what I've gleaned via various snippets and gossip (so I could be wrong), it was the police that complained about certain caches.

I can't tell whether there was an incident, or whether it was a review of security that led to this complaint. I also get the impression that at least one of these caches had formal permission. Obviously, having "permission" doesn't guarantee anything (although it might help to protect Groundspeak), and caches with full permission could be subject to removal if the police deem it necessary.

In the circumstances as far as known, I tend to agree with the cache owner that London and the surrounding urban areas aren't suitable for caches (at least 'official' ones). If I had any in the area I'd feel obliged to remove the listings from GC.com even if I left the caches in place.

[jacobite]

From what I can gather so far (please sit down), I would tend to agree that GSP has taken the correct action in this case! The archiving of these caches could well protect other urban caches. The security situation in London is constantly changing, and if the police see these caches as a problem, then it's better to have them archived, than to p*ss them off and risk blanket ban on caches placed in central London (and beyond).

I'm sorry that one of the cache setters felt the need to archive most of his other caches, maybe a "wait and see" approach would have been a better one?

In my previous post on this thread, I asked Dec if he would be kind enough to ask GSP a couple of questions on our behalf.............?

[Happy Humphrey]

I can fully understand if he thinks that a "wait and see" approach is only likely to lead to more trouble.
Why risk having hassle with the police for providing something for what is after all a trivial pastime? Much better to just keep out of the whole business and spend the money down the pub instead: let some other mug fight with the law and officialdom!
:beer:

[PopUpPirate]

Wonder if the bomb scare was from a local cacher who had an SBA request declined ;):ph34r::p

[sandvika]

Actually, as owner of 2 caches in London that have both gone missing early in their lives, I have an impression that maintaining urban caches requires more effort than rural ones. If that's been the case for JohnnyTuna then I can understand him throwing in the towel, with police objection being the final straw. :(

It's probably a coincidence of being early stage "holiday caches" that all the London Terracaches are virtuals, but it's probably fair to say that they are not a security threat and won't need to be archived. :)

It's rather ironic that GSP has eliminated this pragmatic alternative, however they are unfortunately not subjected to effective market forces, the consequences of which we know all too well, so don't expect any change on this front! :dunno:

[Happy Humphrey]

I haven't looked at the London Terracaches so they might be OK, but being "virtual" doesn't mean that they are not a security issue. If you're seen hanging around certain areas you can be picked up on CCTV: and some virtuals can take a bit of locating. OS benchmarks, rivets, studs and cut marks for instance. I recently DNF'd a couple of US Benchmarks near to the World Trade Center site in New York due to being a bit wary about looking furtive, even though there's much less trouble with security and police there.

And "virtuals" are very much alive and kicking in the Groundspeak web site, as I'm sure you know! ;)