Well, blow me! 120 day ban from 'the other place'

[Simply Paul]

"Sorry, your posting rights have been temporarily suspended. The suspension is due to end on Feb 18 2009, 11:48 PM."

Read the whole story [edit: it was the whole story; since then I've had a post removed, without explanation. It wasn't against forum guidelines as I generally see them applied] here: https://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=205962&st=0

It seems I may have been being too generous to think Jeremy had a (curious, but existant) sense of humour ;)

[jerryo]

Is he serious?

[Simply Paul]

Well, I can't post there at the moment, and I have sent him a nice email via his profile (no response yet) so, for now, it seems he is.

Anyone want to adopt 180+ caches?

[PopUpPirate]

You're not gonna miss anything Paul - what, in all honesty, does go on over there?!

[Us 4 and Jess]

You need to find out if he is pulling ya leg or being serious Paul :eek:

120 day ban for using an avartar is having a laff after all ...

Has anyone contacted Kev ?

M :)

[Simply Paul]

Well PUP, I do love a good row, and there aren't nearly enough of those here. ;)

Mandy, this is the mail I sent to Jezza:

"-- Copy of email sent to Jeremy --
Hi Jeremy. You recently banned me from the GC forums for 120 days. I'm asking you to reconsider, as I, and I expect other people will, feel this is a bit excessive. I've changed my avatar and apologise for the distress borrowing yours for a day clearly caused.

Paul

User's Profile:
https://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=2bb72f97-7ffc-4981-a07a-e8ee4b9a244d"

Still no response, so at the moment, I think he's either serious, or just not that funny. The thread was about heavy-handed forum moderation- the irony isn't lost on me.

[PopUpPirate]

Can anyone knock up a Groundspeak Forums greasemonkey script that tells you you've been banned even if you haven't, just for the feelgood factor that no doubt ensues? ;)

[Simply Paul]

Would someone kindly add a link to this thread from that one please? Ta :)

[PopUpPirate]

Done :)

[Us 4 and Jess]

Well PUP, I do love a good row, and there aren't nearly enough of those here. ;)

Mandy, his is the mail I sent to Jezza:

"-- Copy of email sent to Jeremy --
Hi Jeremy. You recently banned me from the GC forums for 120 days. I'm asking you to reconsider, as I, and I expect other people will, feel this is a bit excessive. I've changed my avatar and apologise for the distress borrowing yours for a day clearly caused.

Paul

User's Profile:
https://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=2bb72f97-7ffc-4981-a07a-e8ee4b9a244d"

Still no response, so at the moment, I think he's either serious, or just not that funny. The thread was about heavy-handed forum moderation- the irony isn't lost on me.

A bit excessive :eek:

Thats the understatement of the year Paul

I think he's having a laugh pet, well I hope he is :dunno:

No one was hurt no harm was done, it was only a laugh, maybe we aren't allowed to do that any more either :ohmy:

M :)

[Simply Paul]

Thanks PUP.

I have a place in the history of the other forum, along with Kev, if nothing else! I'm enjoying the martyrdom as far as I'm able. Silver linings and all that... ;)
...but really. What sort of message is the big boss sending out to a community (and profitable web business) which exists wholly on the good will of its members? It doesn't matter too much to me- There's this forum, and I've a couple of dozen other GC.com accounts (I won't call them sock puppets- they're not used for sock-puppeting. Let's call them alternative names) if I really feel the need to post 'over there'- but think of all the poor folk who can't now benefit from that ol' Simply Paul wit and wisdom there? :D

[Simply Paul]

Update:

"I was pulled away from my first day off in almost a year to let me know that people are screwing around with my photo in the forums in what I can only see as an attempt to provoke the moderators.

Take a break.

Jeremy"

My reply:

"A little lighthearted japery Jeremy. I've changed it and I've apologised. It certainly wasn't an attempt to provoke the moderators on my part. Had it been, I'd have used this version:

edit: Mongoose39uk / Committee Member Join Date: Apr 2004 / Posts: 192 / Thanks: 2 / Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

Doctored Avatar
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul, I am receiving complaints about your use of the doctored jeremy Avatar.

Please can I ask that you edit this out youreslf

Cheers

Tony

Removed, as requested, but in case you think it must have been 'terrible', I'm leaving a link to it (unless I'm told to remove it too): http://www.snapsandbytes.co.uk/charlie.jpg/edit end

Sorry you've been pulled away from a break. The stresses of running your own business. Too much stress, perhaps? If one of us needs a break, I think it could be you.
Paul"

[Simply Paul]

I have put seven caches I've adopted in the past up for readoption:

Visit Tim & Jon's 1st Re-Stashed
https://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=94caf804-1a5e-495e-883b-2f08e5dd4e34

Visit Tim's No 2 - The Second Attempt
https://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=77d6fb4a-6902-4b2d-9e8d-dc5669d13b91

Visit Gravity Hill? (Bucks)
https://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=485eb40a-e94e-4f33-8881-1880934534d3

Visit Pulpit Sermon (Bucks)
https://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=e679cc79-0b2d-4767-9e65-dadec28db54f

Visit HM4 - A gate to nowhere (Herts)
https://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=d6d6492f-2401-4a56-8584-a63981c828bd

Visit Blenheim Palace (get in free!!!)
https://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=8667c127-b7b8-4ee9-9a0f-0bc1e5deb1af

Visit Treacle Well
https://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=f6cdd90c-6cc9-40d4-976f-9bdfcf82eb99

And I'm offering my London Virtual up for adoption (if this is still allowed) too:

Visit SUBTERRANEAN SUB-AQUA (Isle of Dogs/Greenwich)
https://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=cdce6cf5-a087-48ac-89c4-1587ab8a60af

I've archived three other caches tonight, rather than do maintainance on them. My good will towards Groundspeak has run dry.

Could someone copy and paste the above post over to The Other Place for me, as my old mate AgentProvocateur has also been banned for posting there ;) :(

[JeremyR]

No, no, I'm a different Jeremy, honest ;)

Jeez. Utterly speechless except what I wrote over there... I thought/hoped he was joking.

[edit: please note, the following is a joke not a serious suggestion! It had a smiley, thought that was enough to distinguish it from a serious suggestion :P]
Anyone up for a concerted campaign to get as many UK forum regulars as possible to change their avatar to Jeremy Irish's? :applause:

My better half says that's a really bad idea but it would be kinda fun, no?...
[edit: end joke]

[Simply Paul]

Feel free to use the one above. Technically it's not Jeremy's...

[JeremyR]

Maybe you should apply for an appointment to do the Lilly Pad cache and see if you're welcome :D

[JeremyR]

Quoted here without further comment:



Hi Jeremy! Nice to see you in these parts ... we met at the pub in London, remember? I was the one with the dog (canine type that is).

Doesn't 120 days seem just an itsy bitsy teeny weeny bit harsh for something that was essentially a schoolboy prank?

It was funny, it gave us a laugh, didn't seem like anyone was hurt by it ... imitation being the finest form of flattery and all that!

For what it is worth, I think three days would have made them both sit up and be good boys again.

Since you vouched for him I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and reduce it to a 3 day restriction, as long as he doesn't put his foot in it.

[Happy Humphrey]

Looks like the ban is now 3 days.

[Brenin Tegeingl]

Feel free to use the one above. Technically it's not Jeremy's...

As the ban has been reduced to 3 days I wouldn't push things, especially if it could inflame the situation. Remember things can escalate, something no one including the UK Forum Mods wishes to see happen [especially as we end up receiving some of the animal excrement that would be thrown].

Oh and a brief reminder using a Sock account on GC whilst on a Forum ban can not only lead to the Sock being banned but also the Primary account.

You can do 3 days standing on your head, walk away and have a break. Why not go out and maintain a couple of caches, and benefit the rest of the community with a Gold lining :D


Did your friend explain why he/she was banned?

Deci

[Matrix]

Its getting worse over there I am well P annoyed :mad:


I will definately not renewing my premium membership now....




And Paul remember what you told me when I was archiving my caches :ph34r:

[The Hornet]

3 days ban (let alone 6 months) for having a harmless joke at the owner's expense says it all for me. At the moment I feel it best that I don't respond over there or I shall probably join you Paul.

Seems to me you were lucky you weren't visited last night and carted off in an orange boiler suit for an enforced holiday on a little Caribbean Island.

[The Hornet]

As the ban has been reduced to 3 days I wouldn't push things, especially if it could inflame the situation.
So a 3 day ban for having a joke is acceptable? I beg to differ Dave.

Remember things can escalate, something no one including the UK Forum Mods wishes to see happen [especially as we end up receiving some of the animal excrement that would be thrown].
DeciDave, I would suggest that using your position to gag someone you don't like is already an escalation. As forum contributors I maintain it seems we now have to anticipate how each posting might possibly upset all these extremely thin skinned and Oh! so precious "Global mods" who seem to be swarming around the UK forum these days. Being able to take criticism has always been part of the role of a forum moderator, as I know well from experience.

If rational criticism causes excrement to be thrown at our local forum moderators, then they should take a close look at their position. Yes there are (quite rightly) forum guidelines around abuse etc. but people must be allowed to express themselves without fear of unjustified retribution, even if TPTB dislike such contrary opinions.

[Happy Humphrey]

Although it can be difficult at times I advocate regarding the forums and the geocaching website as two separate games.

It's tempting to get into some sort of revenge mode but unfortunately even if all of us here withdrew all our caches and memberships it wouldn't register as a problem to Groundspeak. In fact they may well be grateful that the troublemakers have left the scene.

I suspect that none of the moderators involved in this clumsily-handled episode would be affected by a small proportion of UK caches being lifted: so who would actually suffer in the end? Plus, this is really about forum etiquette (from both the contributors and the moderators). It's worth keeping a sense of proportion as regards actual caches.

[von-horst]

You are joking aren’t you?


You stole the avatar of the owner of a company then used it to make posts that are critical of the company on a forum owned by that company…

Am I really the only person who thinks that was wrong? :dunno:

Ignoring the confusion that your actions could have caused for someone who is either new to the forums (or doesn’t often visit them) you were obviously looking to provoke a reaction and get slapped down, and yet when the slapping duly occurred, you were somehow surprised. What did you expect would happen?

You then used these forums to show off the apologetic email you had sent. The genuine and heartfelt nature of your apology was clearly emphasised by the fact that the same post also included a copy of the avatar that had been doctored to add a Hitler moustache.

Personally, I think that 120 days was getting off easy.

Regardless of my personal feelings on their actions, the fact that so many of the most respected (or at least most vocal) members of this forum’s ‘inner circle’ lobbied on your behalf and got your ban reduced to 3 days is impressive :socool:.

I only hope it is due to their feelings for you rather than what appears to be an increasingly strident tendency amongst the ‘inner circle’ of UK caching to automatically condemn anything GSP does…


Who’d have thought that hunting Tupperware could get so fraught with politics!


Mike

[t.a.folk]

You are joking aren’t you?


You stole the avatar of the owner of a company then used it to make posts that are critical of the company on a forum owned by that company…

Am I really the only person who thinks that was wrong? :dunno:

One of us two says "no ".




You then used these forums to show off the apologetic email you had sent. The genuine and heartfelt nature of your apology was clearly emphasised by the fact that the same post also included a copy of the avatar that had been doctored to add a Hitler moustache.

Mike

An apology to me that ended with questioning my capabilities wouldn't go down too well with me . :confused: :ph34r:

[Dave Gerrie]

Feel free to use the one above. Technically it's not Jeremy's...

Seriously, I'm more than happy to participate in some joint avatar changing. Paul, can yo still read the posts on t'other site? Anyway, I wondered if the avatar belonged to jeremy at all. As I say, it looks like Harry Enfield to me! I've come to terms with the various quirks and foibles on the other site, but I'm flabbergasted by the lastest effort!

[Happy Humphrey]

…

Am I really the only person who thinks that was wrong? :dunno:
...

I haven't seen anyone claiming that SP's avatar pinching wasn't "wrong", but it was just handled badly. I've a feeling that if Jeremy had made a post along the lines "very funny, but I'd rather you didn't use my avatar" it would have defused the whole situation.

The punishment was disproportionate: even though SP made mildly critical remarks, the forum is in a sorry state if that is bound to lead to a ban.

[Dave Gerrie]

I haven't seen anyone claiming that SP's avatar pinching wasn't "wrong", but it was just handled badly. I've a feeling that if Jeremy had made a post along the lines "very funny, but I'd rather you didn't use my avatar" it would have defused the whole situation.

The punishment was disproportionate: even though SP made mildly critical remarks, the forum is in a sorry state if that is bound to lead to a ban.

agreed - but does he own the avatar? I certainly don't own mine!

[Brenin Tegeingl]

Seriously, I'm more than happy to participate in some joint avatar changing. Paul, can yo still read the posts on t'other site? Anyway, I wondered if the avatar belonged to jeremy at all. As I say, it looks like Harry Enfield to me! I've come to terms with the various quirks and foibles on the other site, but I'm flabbergasted by the lastest effort!

As SP as well as many others who have posted to this topic can personally testify having actually meet Jeremy in person. Yes it is a actual photograph of him.

And I personally don't care who this upsets. I'm disgusted at any one who supports editing anyone's photograph to add a Hitler mustache, with all the implications which goes with it! Sorry but I don't see the funny side of that at all.

And this is no any attempt Peter to GAG anyone! But anyone who edit's their avatar to that of Jeremy's on GC risks a long term ban off him, he's made that very clear that the use of his avatar is not acceptable. So please do not risk a ban by making such a change.

Dave-Mancunian Pyrocacher

[Dave Gerrie]

As SP as well as many others who have posted to this topic can personally testify having actually meet Jeremy in person. Yes it is a actual photograph of him.

And I personally don't care who this upsets. I'm disgusted at any one who supports editing anyone's photograph to add a Hitler mustache, with all the implications which goes with it! Sorry but I don't see the funny side of that at all.

And this is no any attempt Peter to GAG anyone! But anyone who edit's their avatar to that of Jeremy's on GC risks a long term ban off him, he's made that very clear that the use of his avatar is not acceptable. So please do not risk a ban by making such a change.

Dave-Mancunian Pyrocacher

Just to clarify any potential misunderstanding, I wasn't condoning putting Hitler mustaches on - simply use of the original. This was in line with my honest opinion that the avatar didn't actually belong to him. Thanks for confirming that it is the man himself!

In which case, I wouldn't recommend using it, but I would still say the response was completely OTT. As HH says below, a request to not do it would seem to be sufficient.

[Brenin Tegeingl]

So a 3 day ban for having a joke is acceptable? I beg to differ Dave.
Dave, I would suggest that using your position to gag someone you don't like is already an escalation. As forum contributors I maintain it seems we now have to anticipate how each posting might possibly upset all these extremely thin skinned and Oh! so precious "Global mods" who seem to be swarming around the UK forum these days. Being able to take criticism has always been part of the role of a forum moderator, as I know well from experience.

If rational criticism causes excrement to be thrown at our local forum moderators, then they should take a close look at their position. Yes there are (quite rightly) forum guidelines around abuse etc. but people must be allowed to express themselves without fear of unjustified retribution, even if TPTB dislike such contrary opinions.

Sorry Peter but a 3 day ban is a lot better than the original 120 day ban which was actually applied. Especially as another member interceded to Jeremy to get that reduction. By deliberately escalating things to get a extension would be a slap in the face for the person who publicly made the request.

In this case the UK Mods had nothing to do with the ban, we made no input. But as representatives of Groundspeak tasked with Moderating the Groundspeak forums in a way which Groundspeak instructs. We will end up on the receiving end whatever happens.

And please explain how advising someone to step back to avoid getting a longer ban up including even up to the original 120 days Gagging them ?

Oh and SP mentioned a friend who had been banned, without mentioning that the friend was a Sock Account. And he also suggested that he might use any of his 12 sock accounts to post to Groundspeaks forums. You personally as a ex Groundspeak Moderator know full well when a Forum ban is applied it is against the person so includes all sock accounts. Do you really wish to see SP get a extended or permanent forum ban for ignoring the ban and posting using a sock account. I know I don't! So how is trying to stop some one from getting into such a position Gagging anyone?

Oh and just to clarify things, I never at any time stated that either a 120 day or even a 3 day ban was a acceptable action. Just that a 3 Day ban was better than a 120 ban.

[JeremyR]

Can I just point out that my original suggestion that everyone suddenly switched to Jeremy's avatar was (a) before he backed down and anyway (b) followed by a smiley and to be taken as a joke. I certainly don't advocate using either of those avatars :wacko:

[markandlynn]

Jaremy's avatar has been "copied" before in fact i rememember a mass use of his avatar on the main forums by a group known for joking arround.

Was quite a laugh i beleive no one got banned i think that for a while Jeremy even copied some of thier avatars.

Unfortunatley the forums do not contain an avatar history.

[PopUpPirate]

GC.com has really ground to a halt now - which never normally happens at this time of week.

Has all the hallmarks of a DoS attack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial-of-service_attack):ph34r: Though I'm sure it's just coincidence! :lol:

[von-horst]

As HH says below, a request to not do it would seem to be sufficient.


Are you serious? :eek:

Do you really think that anyone would need to be requested not to

a) steal the avatar of the owner of a company and then
b) use it to make posts that are critical of the company on a forum owned by that company

in order to know that such actions are not going to be acceptable to the company and its owner?


I know a lot of people on this forum have 'issues' with GSP, but come on.

[Dave Gerrie]

Sorry Peter but a 3 day ban is a lot better than the original 120 day ban which was actually applied. Especially as another member interceded to Jeremy to get that reduction. By deliberately escalating things to get a extension would be a slap in the face for the person who publicly made the request.

In this case the UK Mods had nothing to do with the ban, we made no input. But as representatives of Groundspeak tasked with Moderating the Groundspeak forums in a way which Groundspeak instructs. We will end up on the receiving end whatever happens.

And please explain how advising someone to step back to avoid getting a longer ban up including even up to the original 120 days Gagging them ?

Oh and SP mentioned a friend who had been banned, without mentioning that the friend was a Sock Account. And he also suggested that he might use any of his 12 sock accounts to post to Groundspeaks forums. You personally as a ex Groundspeak Moderator know full well when a Forum ban is applied it is against the person so includes all sock accounts. Do you really wish to see SP get a extended or permanent forum ban for ignoring the ban and posting using a sock account. I know I don't! So how is trying to stop some one from getting into such a position Gagging anyone?

Oh and just to clarify things, I never at any time stated that either a 120 day or even a 3 day ban was a acceptable action. Just that a 3 Day ban was better than a 120 ban.

I think that Peter was implying that Jeremy was gagging someone, not you Dave! when he said 'using your position to gag someone' was a rhetorical point, along the lines of 'using one's position to gag someone', and not actually aimed at yourself! At least, that was how I read it!

Anyway, lunchtime!

[Dave Gerrie]

Are you serious? :eek:

Do you really think that anyone would need to be requested not to

a) steal the avatar of the owner of a company and then
b) use it to make posts that are critical of the company on a forum owned by that company

in order to know that such actions are not going to be acceptable to the company and its owner?


I know a lot of people on this forum have 'issues' with GSP, but come on.

perfectly serious, yep. I firmly believe in freedom of expression and speech and unless it was edited, then CurryKev's original post didn't even mention the company, and SP's was following on from CK. I don't think anyone was critical of Groundpeak.

And, in all honesty, just how serious is temporarily borrowing an avatar, (not stealing) for a giggle, and a giggle aimed at fellow forum users, NOT at the owener of the avatar. Would anyone else be particularly bothered if someone posted a forum entry using an alternative avatar, as a joke?

[Simply Paul]

Well, it's a question of perspective, isn't it? Some people will think I should have got a lifetime ban, and others will think I've done nothing wrong. Certainly I was using that avatar for over a day without any suggestion of wrongdoing from anyone on the forums, via email, text, call or IM. Not from users, not from Mods or Reviewers. If I was being naughty in a way they felt was significant, I don't doubt one would have had a word. They always have in the past ;)
That was until Jeremy was alerted and stomped in... Now, I accept lackies don't always do the right thing, but the boss of a business should know better. Customer Service isn't what it used to be, the game isn't what it used to be, and that forum isn't the enjoyable place it used to be either. Discuss.

120 days? I'd get less for manslaughter. 3 days are too many too, when a polite 'please don't do that' would have been quite sufficient. Other people might say it's a US thing; I was shot first, and questions were (or not) asked later. I wouldn't say that; It tars all Americans with the same brush and while that wouldn't be racist ('Americans' aren't a race) it wouldn't be fair on the fair, decent, sensible ones.

My thanks go to Wendy and others for taking the time to post in my defence on the other forum. I also contacted Jeremy, as you'll see here, to suggest he'd overreacted. I'm not sure I needed vouching for, but if Jezza took it that way, well, that's lovely. It's still a three day ban for a piece of very lighthearted fun. As for confusing new user forum users, every post had my name on it, my sig below it, and if they didn't know that was Jeremy, they'd be none the wiser. If they did know it was Jeremy...they'd know it was Jeremy and I was being funny. Avatar theft? It's a picture, not his soul.

Posting critical observations on a company on their forum isn't dumb, it's constructive feedback- short of sending Jeremy an email on every issue they bring up, how else am I supposed to highlight perceived failings? They're only opinions after all; we're all entitled to them, and if only approved ones are welcome, what's the forum, a PR mechanism? As for sock-puppets, when's an account a sock-puppet? The Dog's already said it's not his main account; has be been banned? I've alternative accounts, shared accounts, and ones with hides and finds against them; are they all sock-puppets? If/when I stop using my Simply Paul account, will any account I use in future still be a sock-puppet account, even if it's my new, primary account? Sock puppets only deserve the name if they're used disruptively, to shield the owner from comebacks. I don't need a sock puppet to be disruptive (even accidentally) and I'll take whatever comeback I have coming. I will, and I do.

At this stage I'm a bit tired. I've other hobbies and demands on my time. I'm also not impressed that I had a post was removed. It wasn't offensive (look at some of the posts allowed to stay on that thread!), or otherwise against rules, and I've had no explanation, which the guidelines say I should. As last night, I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed. My dissatisfaction with how GS run their business has been growing for a while- not just because of what's happened to me with growing frequency on that forum, but what's happened to other people, and with the wider game. Once, a cache would take you somewhere special. Now one in 50 does. I still get some worthwhile logs on some of my caches, but the habit of 'found while caching in the area. 3/16' logging removes the pleasure I once got from owning many of my caches. They'll be going, one way or another. How else can I show my disenchantment with caching, and specifically Groundspeak's management of it, in a meaningful way? I've already asked to cancel my Premium Membership and requested a partial refund. I know archiving 'only hurts other cachers' but when so many of them have no caches of their own, I don't feel they're in any position to take the moral high ground.

For the record, the Charlie Chaplin version of The Leader's avatar wasn't created by me, and was only used in an email to The Leader to make the point that if I'd have wanted to wind up Mods, I could have. Since when is that style of top-lip topiary automatically Hitler's? It's too wide for him. Check the file name and stop jumping to Nazi-based assumptions.

Focusing on the big issue; No word on Kevin's ban. Has that been reduced too? I'll reply to some other points when I have time- for now, I've some adoptions to take care of, and work to do.

[ivanidea]

How far will this go?

I think most of the avatars in use are in breach of copyright - just look at all the cartoon characters in use.

If Disney etc found out, will they sue Groundspeak? Or do they have have the sense not to waste money issuing cease and desist orders.

I certainly think a ban without a warning or chance to rectify the problem is out of order. I bet it was reduced to 3 days so that they didn't have to use valuable resources on an appeal (or having another mod overule their Jeremy :D).

Ivan

[Dave Gerrie]

Well, it's a question of perspective, isn't it? HUGE Snip
Focusing on the big issue; No word on Kevin's ban. Has that been reduced too? I'll reply to some other points when I have time- for now, I've some adoptions to take care of, and work to do.

Agree entirely. And apperently kev's ban is reduced to 3 days. (ENTIRELY for brrowing the avatar, AFAIK - nothing to do with perceived criticism of Big Brother.)

Out of interest, I wonder how many people knew the avatar actually belonged to Jeremy, rather than being a public domain image that was freely available (which is what I assumed).

[The Hornet]

Originally Posted by The Hornet

So a 3 day ban for having a joke is acceptable? I beg to differ Dave.
Dave, I would suggest that using your position to gag someone you don't like is already an escalation. As forum contributors I maintain it seems we now have to anticipate how each posting might possibly upset all these extremely thin skinned and Oh! so precious "Global mods" who seem to be swarming around the UK forum these days. Being able to take criticism has always been part of the role of a forum moderator, as I know well from experience.

If rational criticism causes excrement to be thrown at our local forum moderators, then they should take a close look at their position. Yes there are (quite rightly) forum guidelines around abuse etc. but people must be allowed to express themselves without fear of unjustified retribution, even if TPTB dislike such contrary opinions.
Sorry Peter but a 3 day ban is a lot better than the original 120 day ban which was actually applied. Especially as another member interceded to Jeremy to get that reduction. By deliberately escalating things to get a extension would be a slap in the face for the person who publicly made the request.

In this case the UK Mods had nothing to do with the ban, we made no input. But as representatives of Groundspeak tasked with Moderating the Groundspeak forums in a way which Groundspeak instructs. We will end up on the receiving end whatever happens.

And please explain how advising someone to step back to avoid getting a longer ban up including even up to the original 120 days Gagging them ?

Oh and SP mentioned a friend who had been banned, without mentioning that the friend was a Sock Account. And he also suggested that he might use any of his 12 sock accounts to post to Groundspeaks forums. You personally as a ex Groundspeak Moderator know full well when a Forum ban is applied it is against the person so includes all sock accounts. Do you really wish to see SP get a extended or permanent forum ban for ignoring the ban and posting using a sock account. I know I don't! So how is trying to stop some one from getting into such a position Gagging anyone?

Oh and just to clarify things, I never at any time stated that either a 120 day or even a 3 day ban was a acceptable action. Just that a 3 Day ban was better than a 120 ban.
Perhaps I need to clarify a couple of things, I apologise if I wasn't clear and am sorry if I was misunderstood. Yes, a 3 day ban is less than 120 days but I think it is still out of order for the "misdemeanour".

As Dave Gerrie rightly points out, I was trying to make the point that it was Jeremy who was escalting the situation, not you nor any of the other UK mods. If it came across as a criticism of the local mods then for that I apologise.

I was also making the point that posting anything contentious in the GSP forum is becoming more fraught than it ever used to be. With the continual presence of various "Global" mods ever eager to be "offended" you need to be ever so more careful than you used to be.

I've re-read my original contribution here and I can't see where I alluded to someone being gagged for advising anyone to "step back". Any references to banning or gagging on my part was in relation to such actions being in response to critical postings or minor infringements.

I am probably in as good a position as anyone to know what moderating that forum entails and I know full well from personal experience how sock puppet accounts are viewed. I don't think I suggested that their use was acceptable in this case.

If any excrement from TPTB or their acolytes has been flying around behind the scenes, as it did when Eckington and Lactodorum resigned then I suggest you take that up with the people throwing the excrement.

And if anyone thinks that anything I have said here is a criticism of you or the other UK mods then I would like to state clearly that IT IS NOT. I am seeing a replay of March/April and you guys are in an invidious position again.

[Jaz666]

Perhaps it would have been more appropriate, and humourous, to use an avatar of yourself adopting the Jeremy pose, as others have in the past.
I think I read somewhere that the origins of that pose aren't entirely "family forum friendly".

[markandlynn]

Its the loser sign is it not ??

Paul not that i post much these days but could you create a suitable pose of yourself for people to download and adopt as avatars .

Its interesting that Jeremy felt an indiscretion on the UK forum in a single thread and only two posts within that thread was worth giving up his only day off for two years for i think he exagerates a bit.

[Dave Gerrie]

Its the loser sign is it not ??

Paul not that i post much these days but could you create a suitable pose of yourself for people to download and adopt as avatars .

Its interesting that Jeremy felt an indiscretion on the UK forum in a single thread and only two posts within that thread was worth giving up his only day off for two years for i think he exagerates a bit.

I'm somewhat surprised that the global mods felt the need to call him in on his day off! If I did that to my boss, he'd tell me bu&&er off and sort it out myself! quite rightly!

And yeah, lets all get SP avatars! LOL

[Simply Paul]

Help yourself!

http://www.snapsandbytes.co.uk/bring.gif

http://www.snapsandbytes.co.uk/bring.gif

The idea being, as a Forum Title, you put '...for [whatever you're standing up for]'. Now, who's brave enough to partake of a little bit of fun/political comment/mod baiting/dangerous behaviour likely to get you banned. In fact, should it require you to be brave to put up an avatar that's not offensive at all? :ph34r: <-this smiley is known as Ph34r, meaning Fear.

[jacobite]

Jeremy's judgement has clearly been clouded by emotion, and after some thought he's realised how harsh the 120 day ban is, mind you, I think the 3 day ban isn't called for either.
But more worryingly, I'm a little dismayed to see how Jeremy's bad judgement envokes such negative reaction between members :(



And yeah, lets all get SP avatars! LOL

I would say yes, but I don't know where it would lead! LOL

[PopUpPirate]

Help yourself!

http://www.snapsandbytes.co.uk/bring.gif

http://www.snapsandbytes.co.uk/bring.gif

The idea being, as a Forum Title, you put '...for [whatever you're standing up for]'. Now, who's brave enough to partake of a little bit of fun/political comment/mod baiting/dangerous behaviour likely to get you banned. In fact, should it require you to be brave to put up an avatar that's not offensive at all? :ph34r: <-this smiley is known as Ph34r, meaning Fear.

Either that, or take the original and whap it in http://www.faceinhole.com/gb/ :beer::p;)

[The Hornet]

Just to inject a little harmless lightheartedness it seems that some Sock Puppets are welcome in the GC forums ..... https://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?s=&showtopic=206163&view=findpost&p=3679995 (Written! by https://www.geocaching.com/profile/?id=109056)

Long may this sort of thing continue. :)

[martybartfast]

GC.com has really ground to a halt now - which never normally happens at this time of week.

Has all the hallmarks of a DoS attack (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial-of-service_attack):ph34r: Though I'm sure it's just coincidence! :lol:


Well the forums "over there" seem to be totally unreachable at the mo too.

[Dave Gerrie]

Help yourself

The idea being, as a Forum Title, you put '...for [whatever you're standing up for]'. Now, who's brave enough to partake of a little bit of fun/political comment/mod baiting/dangerous behaviour likely to get you banned. In fact, should it require you to be brave to put up an avatar that's not offensive at all? :ph34r: <-this smiley is known as Ph34r, meaning Fear.

well if the fora over there were working.... anyone else game?

I was telling MrsPP after work about the kerfuffule, and couldn't help laughing, just cos the initial reaction was so OTT. the 3 day ban is inappropriate, 120 days is so out of all proportion its funny (although I appreciate not for you Paul!)

[Simply Paul]

Oh, it made me laugh. A sort of high-pitched, strangled laugh. It also made me reach for a Voodoo doll...

[Matrix]

Help yourself!

http://www.snapsandbytes.co.uk/bring.gif

http://www.snapsandbytes.co.uk/bring.gif

The idea being, as a Forum Title, you put '...for [whatever you're standing up for]'. Now, who's brave enough to partake of a little bit of fun/political comment/mod baiting/dangerous behaviour likely to get you banned. In fact, should it require you to be brave to put up an avatar that's not offensive at all? :ph34r: <-this smiley is known as Ph34r, meaning Fear.

:cheers:

[Stuey]

If I was Jeremy I'd be pretty pissed off too. Getting called by the office on a rare day off because someone pinched his avatar isn't Paul or Kev's "fault", but all the same, it happened.

Troublesome schoolkids sometimes get a telling off by teacher, sometimes they get detention, sometimes they get suspended for a few days and sometimes they get expelled. In my school days I was caned, and after that I respected the wishes of those in authority. I never got caned again.

[Simply Paul]

You were probably used to those in authority being even tempered, consistent, and applying punishment in some sort of ratio to misdemeanour? You probably even deserved the canning -it sounds like it- Do you think Kev and I deserved a 120 day ban, just the 3 days, or neither?

Sometimes school children burn their school down. I'm not a child, the other place isn't a school, and I don't have any matches. I'm not really accepting the comparison.

[Happy Humphrey]

If I was Jeremy I'd be pretty pissed off too. Getting called by the office on a rare day off because someone pinched his avatar isn't Paul or Kev's "fault", but all the same, it happened.

The point is, he shouldn't have been called in for such trivia. If anyone was going to be ticked off it should have been the mods for not dealing with it.

[Team Sieni]

I'm not a child, the other place isn't a school
Well ... I dunno ... nicking someone's avatar is rather child-ish and the other place can resemble Bash Street sometimes. (Mandarin as Teacher, but who's who? From memory there's Danny, Smiffy, Plug, Toots, Cuthbert ...):ohmy:

[keehotee]

The point is, he shouldn't have been called in for such trivia.
OK - does anybody else in here actually believe the founder and chief techy bloke at Groundspeak can't access the forums from home (or anywhere else for that matter), and had to go into the office to dish out a ban ?????:wacko::blink:

[Mrs Blorenge]

OK - does anybody else in here actually believe the founder and chief techy bloke at Groundspeak can't access the forums from home (or anywhere else for that matter), and had to go into the office to dish out a ban ?????:wacko::blink:

What Stuey actually wrote:


If I was Jeremy I'd be pretty p***ed off too. Getting called by the office on a rare day off because someone pinched his avatar isn't Paul or Kev's "fault", but all the same, it happened.

Stuey did not write "called in to the office".

[NickPick]

Wow. I go away for 2 days and all this happens.

Last time I recall this sort of event was in 2005 https://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=104167

[dodgydaved]

GOSH:ohmy::ohmy::ohmy:

I had forgotten all about that thread...........

https://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?s=&showtopic=104167&view=findpost&p=1612489

.......interesting posts:ph34r::ph34r::ph34r::cheers::cheers::beer::b eer:

[studlyone]

Some very interesting and some deleted posts. It seems that things keep going round in circles. I think any ban for what happened is a bit of a knee jerk, barking mad reaction, but it seems JI has a very short fuse to any shenanigins on his forums these days.

[keehotee]

What Stuey actually wrote:



Stuey did not write "called in to the office".

Very true - but I was responding to HH's post.....:coffee:;)


The point is, he shouldn't have been called in for such trivia. If anyone was going to be ticked off it should have been the mods for not dealing with it.

[Mrs Blorenge]

Very true - but I was responding to HH's post.....:coffee:;)

Yep, I realised that. I just quoted Stuey for clarity ;)

Have some biscuits with your coffee...

http://www.homebakeddelights.co.za/images/ss-chocolate.jpg

[The Hornet]

Certainly very interesting to read that old thread. I wonder how many people would get away with something like this https://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?s=&showtopic=103985&view=findpost&p=1610811 nowadays?

[studlyone]

:eek: Not many I'd guess LOL:popcorn:

[keehotee]

Yep, I realised that. I just quoted Stuey for clarity ;)

Have some biscuits with your coffee...

http://www.homebakeddelights.co.za/images/ss-chocolate.jpg

Awwwwww... thanks Mrs B :) :) :)

[Dave Gerrie]

a very interesting read! I was particularly amused to see some pyrocacher bloke (liverpudlian or summink...) posting his dis-satisfaction with Jeremy - obviously a troublemaker and wouldn't be surprised if he was banned at some point - certainly never going to amount to much! :D

[studlyone]

a very interesting read! I was particularly amused to see some pyrocacher bloke (liverpudlian or summink...) posting his dis-satisfaction with Jeremy - obviously a troublemaker and wouldn't be surprised if he was banned at some point - certainly never going to amount to much! :DDefinitely a trouble maker - ave to keep an eye out for him round here ;)

[jacobite]

Very entertaining stuff, those GSP threads. Quite an insight as to how some individuals operate.

[currykev]

Hi all,
just thought I'd pay a quick visit over to these forums.
As I won't be here long.
Just like to say thanks for the support, but I do think I deserved a little reprimand.
Mostly due to my implications rather than the actual avatar "stealing", (as that's what it was.)
120 days would have been somewhat draconian, but 3 days is quite acceptable.
SP has his own motives I'm sure.(Cheers though SP!)
See you in the "other place " soon.

Kevin
:)

[Stuey]

Why go back to the other place? Some people are making a concerted effort to get everyone here. Not me.... I'm now just trying to keep reminding myself not to get involved in the forums both here and there.

One can't upset anyone if one keeps one's gob firmly shut! :cool:

[Wadders]

Just kinda caught up with this thread. and IMHO yes it was a "prank" however the type of facial hair given to him caught easily have been interpeteated in a "german" way:rolleyes:, draw a big nose, or give him rosey red cheeks and he probably would not have reacted in the way that he did. 120 days, now whos the child, talk about throwing the dummy out of the pram!!!:o

But then we all know what he can be like, met him once, seemed ok, but since then GS has gone right downhill with their customer service, so for me personally, i don't care if you have a dartboard with his face in the middle...........................................




I just hope your a good shot:D


If I was Jeremy I'd be pretty pissed off too. Getting called by the office on a rare day off because someone pinched his avatar isn't Paul or Kev's "fault", but all the same, it happened.

Troublesome schoolkids sometimes get a telling off by teacher, sometimes they get detention, sometimes they get suspended for a few days and sometimes they get expelled. In my school days I was caned, and after that I respected the wishes of those in authority. I never got caned again.

But i heard you enjoyed it;):D

[The Phillimore Clan]

Certainly very interesting to read that old thread. I wonder how many people would get away with something like this https://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?s=&showtopic=103985&view=findpost&p=1610811 nowadays?

Woh, that and the follow-up thread (https://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=104169&hl=) is quite an insight into how the big mans mind works :ohmy:. Very, very worrying indeed, lets hope he doesn't get bored with his toy and chuck it out of the pram.

Whether or not MadMarty was a sock and/or troll, I think that Jeremy's behaviour on that thread was absolutely inexcusable.
Incidentally it was around about that time that my account got blocked for no apparent reason. It was unblocked by Jeremy with an apology but no explanation. I do wonder whether this was linked to that incident, nah probably not.

[PopUpPirate]

I'm still looking for a self-ban Greasemonkey script ;)

It wasn't so much poking the bear with a big pointy stick, it was more like tickling the Groundspeak frog under the chin ;)

I'm all for playing devils advocate but Jeremy's behaviour was inexcusable. It was a total sense of humour bypass that only made him look stupid. How anyone can justify banning someone for 3 months based on using their avatar is beyond me. C'mon, if you used Bill from GAGB's avatar or profile pic on here - or MrsBs - or Mongers or whoever, would you expect, or deserve such a ban?

The other alternative of course, is to persistently brown-nose Groundspeak. They do have a fantastic website, but a forum is to discuss, not to solely praise, and it's also to have a bit of banter and dish a bit of stick. Nicking, in the loosest sense of the word, someones avatar, is hardly a heinous crime, and is merely part of the everyday tomfoolery that goes along on most normal forums.

[Mongoose39uk]

I'm still looking for a self-ban Greasemonkey script ;)

It wasn't so much poking the bear with a big pointy stick, it was more like tickling the Groundspeak frog under the chin ;)

I'm all for playing devils advocate but Jeremy's behaviour was inexcusable. It was a total sense of humour bypass that only made him look stupid. How anyone can justify banning someone for 3 months based on using their avatar is beyond me. C'mon, if you used Bill from GAGB's avatar or profile pic on here - or MrsBs - or Mongers or whoever, would you expect, or deserve such a ban?

The other alternative of course, is to persistently brown-nose Groundspeak. They do have a fantastic website, but a forum is to discuss, not to solely praise, and it's also to have a bit of banter and dish a bit of stick. Nicking, in the loosest sense of the word, someones avatar, is hardly a heinous crime, and is merely part of the everyday tomfoolery that goes along on most normal forums.


Mongers, Mongers! who gave you permission to call me Mongers 18 month ban it is :p

[PopUpPirate]

Mongers, Mongers! who gave you permission to call me Mongers 18 month ban it is :p

:p:p:p

[Us 4 and Jess]

I'm still looking for a self-ban Greasemonkey script ;)

How anyone can justify banning someone for 3 months based on using their avatar is beyond me.


120 days was 4 months when I was a lass Mark :eek:

Sorry pet just being pedantic :ohmy:

I think 3 days is bad for a daft giggle, someone wants a sense of humour pill :mad:

M :D

[Dave Gerrie]

120 days was 4 months when I was a lass Mark :eek:

Sorry pet just being pedantic :ohmy:

I think 3 days is bad for a daft giggle, someone wants a sense of humour pill :mad:

M :D

and I bet they were better months too mandy! Months these days just aren't what they used to be...

[markandlynn]

Why go back to the other place? Some people are making a concerted effort to get everyone here. Not me.... I'm now just trying to keep reminding myself not to get involved in the forums both here and there.

One can't upset anyone if one keeps one's gob firmly shut! :cool:

Ahh another recovering forum adict.

Perhaps we need a forum all to ourselves to help us recover !

For a list of angsty forum threads have a look here

https://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=140550&hl=

Unfortunately its in off topic so premium members only.

[Mrs Blorenge]

Ahh another recovering forum adict.

Perhaps we need a forum all to ourselves to help us recover !

For a list of angsty forum threads have a look here

https://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=140550&hl=

Unfortunately its in off topic so premium members only.

That's a great link - Thanks!

I've just read through the idea of the "un-used medicines cache". :wacko:

Will read the rest later... :socool:

[markandlynn]

That's a great link - Thanks!

I've just read through the idea of the "un-used medicines cache". :wacko:

Will read the rest later... :socool:

Ohh boblog (https://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=50927&hl=) well worth a read :D

And finally

https://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=89152&st=0&p=1262250&#entry1262250

[The Book Of Shadows]

What happened to the days when folks just went out caching instead of getting embroiled into the politics of Groundspeak? :D

[The Phillimore Clan]

What happened to the days when folks just went out caching instead of getting embroiled into the politics of Groundspeak? :D
Can't afford to go caching coz of the price of petrol :D

[The Book Of Shadows]

Can't afford to go caching coz of the price of petrol :D

Apparently the cost of petrol is going to be below 90p a litre soon, sods law I no longer have a car :D

[nobbynobbs]

not for long as they've voted to slow production of oil so the price can go up again for the poor sheiks who must be down to their last couple of billions by now!!!:mad:

[Simply Paul]

Staying on topic, I'll be able to reply to Haggis Hunter and others at The Other Place after 3.30am-ish tomorrow morning. In the meantime I've been warmed by my Doppelgangers. I very much feel like I'm still there, in spirit anyway. :)

I've used my time off constructively, and have perhaps come up with something potentially better than caching. Yes, I know, it's not possible, but bees flying shouldn't be possible either... I've looked at what caching used to offer me, what I still like about it, its limits, failings and problems, and mixed in some ideas I think will appeal to the average cacher and out-door-user too. It's not a UK-specific caching site; I don't think people really want one of those. This would be a pastime players could do in parallel with caching, while offering them 'lots of other stuff' I think geocaching should already do. When I've spoken about it to some other people, and pinned down a name (the right mix of geeky-cool or cool-geekiness is needed), I hope to be able to explain more about it here. The people I've run it by so far were impressed and excited, and I deliberately picked jaded people hard to impress ;)

[jerryo]

It occurs to me that this might all be my fault! I archived my Muggle This! cache then there was the thread about extreme caches and this was followed up by the moderation thread and all that it led to. Whoopsy, sorry guys :dunno:.

[Simply Paul]

Just kinda caught up with this thread. and IMHO yes it was a "prank" however the type of facial hair given to him caught easily have been interpeteated in a "german" way:rolleyes:, draw a big nose, or give him rosey red cheeks and he probably would not have reacted in the way that he did. 120 days, now whos the child, talk about throwing the dummy out of the pram!!!:oI just reread this and wanted to make it clear that the picture I used on the other forum was just Jeremy's (or currykev's?), not the doctored one with the tash. Jeremy suggested I'd tried to wind the mods up by using his picture, I said that wasn't my intention and sent him a picture that I could have used if that had been my aim. It wasn't made by me, and was only sent to Jezza for illustrative purposes. I still don't see how it's automatically Hitler though- is it something about Jeremy's flick hairstyle in that photo?

[martybartfast]

I still don't see how it's automatically Hitler though- is it something about Jeremy's flick hairstyle in that photo?

Well surely that 'tache is only going to bring one of three people to mind Chaplin, Hitler, or Mr Gumby depending on the context and the point of view of the reader. Considering the whole discussion was about the authoritarian tendencies of the moderation and the heavy handed (ab)use of power then it sort of rules out Chaplin & Mr Gumby doesn't it?

My brain hurts :wacko:

[Simply Paul]

I may have been suggesting that Jeremy was being a clown, or a right Charlie, or would look stupid with a tash. Or was balancing a slug. I can see why people are putting another spin on it though. What the hell; if you want to see Jeremy as a Dictator, I'm not going to stop you. Nor, perhaps, would I want to :)

[scottpa100]

Gosh - you go away for a couple of weeks and a lot of things happen! There is no denying that the UK Groundspeak forums are loads quieter than what they were.

To which end Paul, I'd just take it all on the chin what has happened and move on. Part of the reason why I've gone quieter in the GS forums is that you can't just say what you want to say. For people hailing from the 'land of the free' our UK interpretation of free speech and just saying what's on your mind and maybe having a laugh (even with dark humour) is seems to be more 'free'.

I feel sorry for newbies as the newbies may not, despite postings aplenty in the GS forum, stumble across the GAGB forum until much later. By that stage not realising what a helpful bunch of peeps are ready to help others on the forums.

Step up and move on. Keep on caching - remember... that's what brought us all here and to the Groundspeak forums. the forums were, originally, secondary... the caching came first! :)

[Wadders]

I just reread this and wanted to make it clear that the picture I used on the other forum was just Jeremy's (or currykev's?), not the doctored one with the tash. Jeremy suggested I'd tried to wind the mods up by using his picture, I said that wasn't my intention and sent him a picture that I could have used if that had been my aim. It wasn't made by me, and was only sent to Jezza for illustrative purposes. I still don't see how it's automatically Hitler though- is it something about Jeremy's flick hairstyle in that photo?

Ah ok, i obviously missed that point, so you only used his avatar, unaltered!
If thats the case Jeremy needs to grab his GPS, turn it on, get out in those woods and find that sense of humour that he's lost:wacko:

[fraggle69]

Guess you're right SP.
After following a link supplied by someone I merely asked if they were implying that Jeremy was gay. I had my question removed and I was warned. When I re-submitted the bit that was censored I got a 3day ban.
ooooh I am soo upset lol I think I might have to go away and cry myself to sleep. boohoo hoobooo boohooo

arrrrrr keelhaul his avatar that there's a fine lookin plank m'lad yoho:cheers:

[Simply Paul]

Sorry to hear that fraggle, but as you saw in my email and posts, I thought I saw it coming. You're a very naughty boy. Go to your room and think about what just happened. I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed... etc. etc. Now, Ellen DeGeneres *is* gay, yes, but I don't think it follows that Jeremy is too. I've met his wife, which I know if proof of nothing, but it does hint at heterosexuality. (I typed Jeremy as Germany at first. Where the hell did that come from?!)

[fraggle69]

Sorry to hear that fraggle, but as you saw in my email and posts, I thought I saw it coming. You're a very naughty boy. Go to your room and think about what just happened. I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed... etc. etc. Now, Ellen DeGeneres *is* gay, yes, but I don't think it follows that Jeremy is too. I've met his wife, which I know if proof of nothing, but it does hint at heterosexuality. (I typed Jeremy as Germany at first. Where the hell did that come from?!)

wie yaaarrrrr:applause:

[Fluffy's Revenge]

Why cant I use an Avatar?

Is it cos I'm straight?

Fluffy

[studlyone]

Why cant I use an Avatar?To change your avatar you need to visit this page:

https://www.gagb.org.uk/forums/profile.php?do=editavatar

Ian

[Fluffy's Revenge]

To change your avatar you need to visit this page:

https://www.gagb.org.uk/forums/profile.php?do=editavatar

Ian


Thanks, when I went there before there was only the top part and it was not possible to switch off the "Do not use an avatar" button

But now it works, ta

Fluffy