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MoorleyFamily
7th January 2010, 12:21 PM
Hi there

First post - and having problems as it won't let me post links!!

I have been trying to place my first ever cache on land known as Therfield Heath (Hertfordshire). This land is owned by the Church Commissioners and managed (mostly) by volunteer trustees called Conservators.

However the land is Common land under a 1888 Act of Parliament. (It's been amend by a few Standing Orders but nothing significant).

Also on the Defra website (sorry this board won't let me post the link yet) - is PDF of common lands with permissions etc - and it says:

"

Access,
games and
reasonable
recreation:
whole"

I have checked on the by-laws posted up at the site too - and it seems to agree with this - listing a whole lot of things (e.g. fires) they consider to be "not reasonable" I guess! But Geocaching appears not to fall foul of any of them.

Given that

a) I had an informal chat with the part time warden/ranger
b) There is already a cache on the site
c) I didn't want to waste the time of the volunteer Trustees unnecessarily

I had assumed the Law was sufficient to give me permissions.

However my cache entry has been put on hold by the moderator pending (amongst a few other things) a email/letter permission.

So does anybody have an experience of sites with Common Land status such as this and can they shed any light on whether the provisions of Access in the Acts such as above are sufficient for placing a cache?

Thanks
Andy

Happy Humphrey
7th January 2010, 01:15 PM
If it's on the northern part of Therfield Heath, the land has SSSI status. AFAIK, there's no legal restriction on you placing a cache there (as you've seen). So there's no legal reason why you shouldn't just place one (although I'm not an expert). It's also Access Land, so you have every right to wander there at will.

However, Groundspeak (geocaching.com) refuses to list caches in SSSIs without written proof of permission from the relevant authority. So that will be the reason for the delay. Even if you have permission, the cache won't be approved until you show written proof. Even if you have written proof, you'll have to check that it's at the right level (the ranger may or may not be good enough).

Other listing sites may approve the cache.

If it's outside the SSSI, you may get it approved without the bureaucracy.

MoorleyFamily
7th January 2010, 02:55 PM
Thanks - that's really helpful.

Do you know if the SSSI related permission has to come from the land Manager or via Natural England - I'm assuming it's the Land Manager but just wanted to check what I am getting into here!

Happy Humphrey
7th January 2010, 04:09 PM
I think it's the land manager, although you might want to check with your reviewer to make sure (and to check what document will be sufficient).

nobbynobbs
7th January 2010, 06:07 PM
Access does not automatically allow you to leave items on the land. It allows you to access the land.

The land manager or person who is in charge of maintaining the land is the best person to speak to and get permission from. Hopefullythey will be ameniable to the request, though the fact that someone else has placed one might or might not help depending on whether permission was obtained for that one.

Happy Humphrey
7th January 2010, 08:05 PM
Access does not automatically allow you to leave items on the land. It allows you to access the land.

I should clarify by saying that I was not claiming that because it's Access Land it gives you a particular right to leave a cache, just that there's no general law in England against placing a cache (as far as I've been able to ascertain, although no doubt Nobby will be along with chapter and verse!).

I don't want to get off-topic, so please don't discuss in this thread, but I believe that there's no law stopping anyone placing a cache almost anywhere (you have to check bylaws though). It's been well and truly debated elsewhere and the conclusion was that leaving a cache is not littering so there's generally no law against it.

nobbynobbs
8th January 2010, 06:31 AM
The only chapter and verse that I shall be quoting is thay it's impolite to just assume you can leave something on someone else's property without asking. :)

Happy Humphrey
8th January 2010, 08:41 AM
The only chapter and verse that I shall be quoting is thay it's impolite to just assume you can leave something on someone else's property without asking. :)
I meant the legal aspect, really.
Although it's debatable whether such areas as the one in question are anyone's "property", strictly speaking; it's not like they're someone's garden or car park. But checking with the land manager is normally a politeness that geocachers do go in for (as long as it's a reasonably straightforward process). AFAIK other similar pastimes don't tend to bother.