Royal Parks petition

[Matrix]

So much for that then


More details from petition creator

We would appeal to the the Prime Minister to Approach the Royal Parks management and seek to get them to reconsider their ban on the placing of Geocaches within the boundaries of all Royal Parks managed by them. Geocaching is a hobby that encourages people of all ages and stature to partake of exercise and make use of public spaces and is beneficial in pursuit of the Government’s approach to getting people to take more exercise. As this is also a family activity it encourages the younger generation to ‘get out’ with their family and also encourages the older generation to stay active. I would also like to point out that it actually contravenes the wording that is in their Business Section and is headed ‘Holding events in The Royal Parks’ Geocaching certainly fits the criteria mentioned within that quoted section Many authorities accept Geocaching with negotiated agreements in place so as the hiding of and searching for the actual Geocaches is carefully regulated.

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Geocaching/

Government response

The Government recognises that Geocaching is a family activity that encourages people of all ages to take exercise and make use of public spaces.

The Royal Parks do not allow the placing of caches on land in its care, due to concerns over conservation and security issues. We understand that, on the security issue, the Royal Parks have the full support of the Metropolitan Police (who police the parks).

Richmond Park is both a Site of Special Scientific Interest and a National Nature Reserve. The Geocaching Association of Great Britain has guidelines which acknowledge that such sites are unsuitable for this activity.

[Bear and Ragged]

The GAGB guidelines:

3. No cache should be placed in such a way as to risk damage or disturbance to any Site of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI) or Scheduled Ancient Monument (SAM)


Doesn't say "Such sites are unsuitable for this activity."

[Matrix]

Doesn't say "Such sites are unsuitable for this activity."

But the government have never let the facts get in the way of a decision :ph34r:

[The Wombles]

Perhaps it's time to say that such sites will need permission from the relevant authority, therefore making it clear that such caches are not just completely forbidden?

[markandlynn]

The GAGB have been misquoted by the UK governement, i trust that you are contacting the person making this statement to correct them and ask for an apology and reconsideration of the petition ?

[DrDick&Vick]

For what good it will do, I have just emailed the PM's office and quoted the relevant Guideline and asked for the statement to be corrected.

[Happy Humphrey]

Doesn't say "Such sites are unsuitable for this activity."
Yes, and we know that. But

3. No cache should be placed in such a way as to risk damage or disturbance to any Site of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI) or Scheduled Ancient Monument (SAM)
...to the non-cacher sounds like you aren't supposed to place a cache in such an area at all. It does need rewording.

[t.a.folk]

Yes, and we know that. But

...to the non-cacher sounds like you aren't supposed to place a cache in such an area at all. It does need rewording.


Taken the other way we feel could read it is O.K. to place caches that could cause disturbance in areas that are not S.S.S.I. or Sams etc. :lol:

[Bear and Ragged]

3. Caches placed at any Site of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI) or Scheduled Ancient Monument (SAM) need explicit written permission and should be placed in such a way as to risk damage or disturbance to the site.

:dunno:

Didn't Deci help with negotiations with the Met Police, a while back, to get caches hidden in the Mets area? (With a view to security).

How can 'Security' and 'Met Police' be used against us (Cachers/GAGB) when there is an agreement in place covering the [larger] area already?

:dunno:

Discrimination! :eek:



:lol:

[nobbynobbs]

unfortunately not discrimination just blatant narrow mindedness and lack of checking the facts. I wonder whether the met pol are aware that they have said they agree? I wonder if there's anyone who might be able to speak to them :)

[Brenin Tegeingl]

3. Caches placed at any Site of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI) or Scheduled Ancient Monument (SAM) need explicit written permission and should be placed in such a way as to risk damage or disturbance to the site.

:dunno:

Didn't Deci help with negotiations with the Met Police, a while back, to get caches hidden in the Mets area? (With a view to security).

How can 'Security' and 'Met Police' be used against us (Cachers/GAGB) when there is an agreement in place covering the [larger] area already?

:dunno:

Discrimination! :eek:



:lol:

The meeting with the Royal Parks and the GAGB had in attendance, a member of the Royal Parks Police. Which is now a Department within the Metropolitan Police Service. So the Government would have had feedback possibly directly from that department, or more possibly the Royal Parks Management. Expressing the security concerns of that department or the person from that department who attended the meeting.

And as we all know, the Royal Parks Senior Management are rabidly anti Geocaching!

I believe the way forward over this issue is to try and arrange for a meeting with

The Ministers at the Department for Culture Media and Sport, for which the Royal Parks is a Executive Agency. They are

Rt Hon Jeremy Hunt MP (http://www.culture.gov.uk/about_us/our_ministers/7049.aspx)
Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport

who is supported by

John Penrose MP (http://www.culture.gov.uk/about_us/our_ministers/7051.aspx)
Minister for Tourism and Heritage

Hugh Robertson MP (http://www.culture.gov.uk/about_us/our_ministers/7052.aspx)
Minister for Sport and the Olympics

Ed Vaizey MP (http://www.culture.gov.uk/about_us/our_ministers/7050.aspx)
Minister for Culture, Communications and Creative Industries (joint Minister with Department of Business, Innovation and Skills)

To allow the proper explanation of Geocaching and the case for being allowed to place caches within the Royal Parks to be properly made. Without the Government being given a one sided biased opinion by Senior Management. It would also allow the fact that the Local Managers where happy for Geocaching to take place in the parks they manage, and that their experience of Geocaching had been positive, with no damage being caused or Security Issues being caused.

Because I'll bet that the Government were never informed that Geocaches were placed in Royal Parks with Local Management Permission. So that there is no evidence of the issues being claimed by the Royal Parks Senior Management!

My wife will probably kill me for this :ohmy:, but I personally am prepared to be a member of any group representing the UK Geocaching Community (provided that community has no objections), with the above Ministers if such a meeting can be arranged!

Deci

[Bear and Ragged]

As another form of attack...
May be worthwhile for a constituent to approach the MP's on their home turf...

Looking at where they are from:
John Penrose was elected as MP for Weston-super-Mare in 2005.

Where caching has 'recently' had a Mega event. Was he aware of it?

[Happy Humphrey]

I believe the way forward over this issue is to try and arrange for a meeting with ...

I completely agree. I think that a face-to-face meeting is the only real hope. Otherwise, it's only too easy for officials to skim through correspondence and continue to ignore requests for review.

As we've seen so many times, unsympathetic land managers have a tendency to dismiss cache requests using an array of spurious excuses. If there is a genuine reason for a cache ban; then fine. But if the ban is based on misunderstanding the activity (genuinely or mischievously), then I believe that no amount of e-mailing or petitioning will make a difference. The only chance is to actually meet, make a presentation to demonstrate the geocaching process, answer questions, and demonstrate how caching can be made to work alongside the other activities in the area. If an agreement is reached with some limitations (New Forest style), then we already have the means to enforce whatever special conditions apply.

I would love to offer practical help, but sadly I'm extremely short of spare time and would not be a lot of use. But I hope my ideas are seen as a contribution.

[AngryBirds]

... I personally am prepared to be a member of any group representing the UK Geocaching Community (provided that community has no objections), with the above Ministers if such a meeting can be arranged!

Deci

What is the process within the UK geocaching community, when formal representation to a government body is needed?