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Thread: Commercial Events!

  1. #1
    moote01 Guest

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    OK it appear that all the "Fuss" on GC.com is centered around Commercial and Charitable events, OK I understand what Charitable is, but what is the difference between an Event in a pub and an Event on a campsite? After all both take your money if you choose to use their facilities. It really does smack of dual standards. :huh:

    Maybe events should only be arranged in places which are totally free to attend, will it become the day when the only place we can openly advertise for our meets will be Public Toilets?

    Moote :

  2. #2

    Join Date
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    The issue isn't with the location of events, but with Groundspeak's wishes to stop cache pages turning into adverts for such venues.
    One of the loonies who ran the UK's First Mega Event :wacko:
    http://www.yorkshiregeocaching.co.uk

  3. #3
    keehotee Guest

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    Maybe events should only be arranged in places which are totally free to attend, will it become the day when the only place we can openly advertise for our meets will be Public Toilets?
    No! Soliciting ist verboten! Unless you're holding the George Michael mega-event - coming soon to a (Clapham) Common near you.....h34r:


    Anyway, toilets aren't free - local authorities provide them, and they're paid for by the local rate-payers.
    Inviting someone from out of town to visit your local loos could be seen as soliciting them to move into the area, therefore contributing financially to the local authority.....

  4. #4

    Join Date
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    Groundspeak at present have a very narow view on all things outside their own business. Personally I like to see notes recomending a good place for a butty/pint or advice on where to camp etc on event pages but groundspeak see it as spam rather than giving advice that cachers are free to ignore or use as they see fit.

    I'm not sure what the anser is, but groundspeaks attitude and inflexibility on the subject aren't it I believe.
    "I Cache, therefore I am"

  5. #5
    moote01 Guest

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    Originally posted by Jaz666@Apr 27 2008, 07:02 PM
    The issue isn't with the location of events, but with Groundspeak's wishes to stop cache pages turning into adverts for such venues.
    But saying meet at 12:30 at the Dog and Ducket, is no different to saying the meet will be held at The Happy Valley Campsite on Saturday. Both have a commercial aspect, but camping events have not really been targeted.

    I can turn up at a pub and not pay a penny, just enjoy the company of others, but many campsite do charge a day fee, so that would penalise everyone.

    What ever you do you need to tell people that this is a campsite called xxxxx and it cost £10 a night, you can't just give co-ords as these places require booking (usually) So what is the difference?

  6. #6
    Jan and the Percey Boys Guest

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    the easy way is to waymark the campsite or pub and then add a waymark link

    Bob

  7. #7

    Join Date
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    I cant find it now (the thread has probably been closed and deleted) but there was a post from Mtn-Man yesterday, I think, saying that TPTB have learned about U turns and it is now permitted to name the pub on event pages.

  8. #8
    nobbynobbs Guest

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    this is just a quick thought that's just struck me and may not be practical.

    could you not start a thread here with all the commercial bits and post a link on the cache page?

  9. #9
    keehotee Guest

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    could you not start a thread here with all the commercial bits and post a link on the cache page?
    As long as this forum remains open to everybody to read, whether registered or not.

    You could also post an "email me for details" bit on the cache page....

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
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    I may be able to add something to this debate.

    Some time ago I sent this mail to GSP. I have not quoted it in full 'cos it is long winded enough anyway

    "I do sometimes wonder about the idea non-Brits have about a “local” pub. My immediate co-worker is a New York raised gentleman and I broached the subject with him. He readily admits that when he first arrived in UK he was totally ignorant about the place the village “local” held in our society.



    It can be several hundred years old, and have been a place of refreshment – or on the site of a place of local refreshment since the 13th century and earlier. Many are built at road junctions and hence are often used as direction indicators – “Turn left at “The George” and go down the road until you get to ”The Queen’s Arms”. Many are built in the wilds of the country, often a good distance from the nearest dwelling – and yet are more often than not full of customers. In walking country you would not be surprised to find a huge row of walking boots at the back door and most of the guests walking about in stocking feet. Many used to – and now a growing number have returned to the tradition – of brewing their own ale. So a comment on a cache page like: “The Old Warden at “The Eckington Arms” is really worth trying!” is not a commercial plug for the pub, but a well meant social comment – and I do not mean an agendaJ



    I hope you are able to persuade your friends in HQ that when the local pub, chippy (a very UK specific form of simple fast food outlet) is mentioned on a cache page it is not a commercial incentive, it is not “an invitation to treat”, it is merely a social comment – a direction similar to “It is at the back of the parking lot!” – essentially part of our specific culture and as thus best regulated by us, the UK reviewers, with no need to further burden your good selves."



    The reply that came through was very firm:

    Again I do not quote it in full or attribute it as I do not have the sender's permission, but feel it is germane to the issue:

    ""If you are feeling hungry afterwards, the Catherine Wheel PH round the corner in Gravesend village does good food, but it is what I believe is known as a Gastropub, and quite pricey.""

    "That is exactly what is being addressed by the guideline about indirectly or non-intentionally soliciting customers. In most - if not all - of the US, that would be called out by the reviewer as not allowed. That is simply the standard operating procedure."

    So there's your answer, a bit at least



  11. #11

    Join Date
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    keehotee wrote:
    As long as this forum remains open to everybody to read, whether registered or not.
    Tim, the General forum always has been, and I hope always will be, open to everyone to read, whether members or not. Only members can post, though.

    ---
    Bill, Chairman GAGB
    ​​Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light. (Dylan Thomas)​


  12. #12
    moote01 Guest

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    Dave thanks for the constructive reply, and very interesting it is also.

    I can see Groundspeak's reasoning behind the Pub thing, but also I can see that the events I have attended have never made it compulsory for me to have a pint and a pie! What they have provided is a good place to meet, many in interesting places and some with interesting backgrounds, so as you say they are more landmarks than anything else. Oh yes and on numerous occasions they have kept me and many Cachers dry and warm.

    But if you remove the history element, the land mark and swap the pub for a windy location just outside Llangollen that charged £10 a night to camp, what is the difference, nothing as both are taking money from you.

    What I feel is the issue is that the Pub, in the good ole US of A, is not as matured a place as some of the great ale houses that we have in the UK, their lack of any real history, appears to be their thinking, as pubs are usually nondescript places in the US

    It does beggar belief the way I have witnessed within the UK forums, the total lack of communication that the US reviewers portray, and the almost robotic way that they behave, It's almost like a scene in Westworld when then spout there rhetoric.

    I think the key fact here is they have no culture post 18th Century so the stone of there society is to silence anything pre that date

    Milton

    Milton

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    Barnoldswick, Yorks/Lancs Border
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    Bob hit the nail on the head a few posts back, and it was something that occured to those who frequent the UK Geochat room a few nights back.

    As DaveD put, this kind of text isn't acceptable on a Geocache listing
    "If you are feeling hungry afterwards, the Catherine Wheel PH round the corner in Gravesend village does good food, but it is what I believe is known as a Gastropub, and quite pricey."

    Yet, this is totally acceptable http://www.waymarking.com/cat/details.aspx...f6-ed9d8efa5225

    It occurs that this could be one of two things.
    - Hypocrisy
    - All part of a bigger plan by GS, for the much touted Version 2 "due out" soon.

    Perhaps they are soon going to announce that any commercial content, like a pub recommendation, will have to be listed as a Waymark, with a link to it inserted on the Cachepage. <insert conspiracy theory here>
    One of the loonies who ran the UK's First Mega Event :wacko:
    http://www.yorkshiregeocaching.co.uk

  14. #14
    keehotee Guest

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    Can we also assume that GS will also be removing every posting that asks for "The best GPS", "The best caching software", or "What paperless combo do you use" - as these are far more visible solicitations than mentioning a pub - that in all likelihood would not advertise anyway.??

  15. #15
    nobbynobbs Guest

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    I would love to think that we are going to be able to change their minds but I somehow think that it is wishfull thinking.

    So we have to work around it.

    If we want to make a comment regarding a local pub or similar then we add a link to a seperate site.

    list all the caches on their site as they already have all the set up and so on. host the forums here, where we have already clarified several times that the moderation has been and will remain light and that anyone can access but only members can post. I&#39;m sure you don&#39;t want any old spammer filling these pages and we all owe Bill D many thanks for that.


    Then maybe add a seperate area either here or on a new location that we can link to for each cache where we want to post information of local pubs, charity events that might be happening near to an existing event etc.

    I&#39;m no website expert and I only vaguely know about these things called bandwidth etc so I&#39;m not sure if this is a practical thought.

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