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Thread: And I thought the recent Groundspeak antagonism was over!

  1. #1
    FollowMeChaps Guest

    Default And I thought the recent Groundspeak antagonism was over!

    Well it's my own fault I suppose! hmy:

    I thought of posting my new thread on this forum but chose the other side as there has been little traffic here over the last few days. How wrong I was; I hadn't realised that Dave had joined the Grumpy Old Men brigade. He's closed it as "nothing even remotely to do with geocaching"!

    Personally I can't see why collecting foodstuffs whilst out geocaching is any less to do with our hobby than nettles, the cost of fuel, who lives in a house like this, what's in your caching bag and so on........ not forgetting the The All New All New Groundspeak UK Pub Quiz which even has the gall to a) claim to be 'off topic' and b) mention a pub which I thought Groundspeak feel to be a commercial concern!:cheers:

    Not that I'm looking to get these other threads closed - I'm NOT. Rather I think that by closing these threads they are taking away the soul of the UK forum.

    More power to this GAGB

  2. #2
    FollowMeChaps Guest

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    Just to make it interesting I've added another thread to the UK forum (7:47pm BST). I wonder how long until it's pulled?
    Last edited by FollowMeChaps; 26th May 2008 at 07:57 PM.

  3. #3

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    Well, obviously you're welcome to post the original question in our Off Topic forum, and for that matter I don't think anyone would object if you posted it in the General one.

    And I don't mean to imply any criticism of Dave - he's got to follow GS rules, and I'm sure it's sometimes difficult to know where to draw the line.
    ​​Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light. (Dylan Thomas)​


  4. #4

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    All I'll say on the mater is that I posted a specific link to this forum when I closed the topic.
    My post is my personal opinion and as such you do not have my permission to quote me outside of these forums!

    Dave
    Brenin Tegeingl
    Formerly known as Mancunian Pyrocacher on GC

  5. #5

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    Thanks Dave, I hadn't read the topic in question when I posted earlier, so I didn't know you'd provided that link.
    ​​Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light. (Dylan Thomas)​


  6. #6
    nobbynobbs Guest

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    shame that dave had to do it because of the rules but excellent that he pointed people this way as we're more than happy to have it

  7. #7
    Lactodorum Guest

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    Sigh! This is the sort of thread which, while possibly somewhat off topic, we would have allowed in the GSP UK forum a month or two ago. The phrase "start another thread sharing country recipes we could gather whilst out caching" would have made me think that it was harmless and would interest Geocachers in this country. The alternative would have been to post it in the GSP "Off Topic" thread where Premium Members could have seen it.

    Of course the danger there is that it would have been flooded with American recipes using ingredients unavailable here.

    While it is great that it can be shared here I find it immensely frustrating that GSP are still using either the big stick or intimidation to keep our UK moderator in check.

    Plus ca change

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D (wwh) View Post
    - he's got to follow GS rules, and I'm sure it's sometimes difficult to know where to draw the line.


    But his new and absolute insistence of the minutiae of each guideline can only be the result of constant harassment from a small group of fanatically purist general moderators from elsewhere.

    Yes, a criticism of part of the GSP management team and not Dave, I hope the combined will of the new reviewing/moderating team, as and when it comes on line, is able to take the fundamentalists on and move the UK forum forward into the 21st century and not let it flounder in the past.

    And I am well aware that some of those I speak of lurk here - so please take it to heart.

  9. #9
    Chaotica_UK Guest

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    Hi Robin,
    As suspected nothing over there has changed . Its much friendlier over here.
    Mark

  10. #10

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    Second guessing Dave for a moment, and purely speculation........

    Perhaps the reason that thread was closed, whilst other recent examples (moth and nest identification) have been allowed is purely because someone saw fit to click the "report" button?

  11. #11
    Lactodorum Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaz666 View Post
    Second guessing Dave for a moment, and purely speculation........

    Perhaps the reason that thread was closed, whilst other recent examples (moth and nest identification) have been allowed is purely because someone saw fit to click the "report" button?
    If they did, I strongly suspect it wasn't a UK cacher. There again I have no knowledge of the background so maybe it's just my paranoia talking h34r:

  12. #12

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    I noticed the car boot topic had been moved a while back. I don't have time to trawl through the relevent forum, which I expect is full of American adverts.

    How long before requests for help on GPS and software is moved to the relevent forum? Again, time is a factor.

    The UK forum should be for everything UK.

    Oh well, at least we have the GAGB forums for everything Groundspeak won't let us talk about.

    Just for future reference, which forum should be used for sales / wanted adverts?
    Paved Roads: Another fine example of unnecessary Government spending!

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    ivanidea wrote:
    Just for future reference, which forum should be used for sales / wanted adverts?
    I think this one, the General forum, is the best place. If we get a lot of them, though, then we'd probably put on a Car Boot forum just for those.
    ​​Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light. (Dylan Thomas)​


  14. #14
    nobbynobbs Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by ivanidea View Post
    Oh well, at least we have the GAGB forums for everything Groundspeak won't let us talk about.

    Why do it that way? surely it's just easier to use these for everything

  15. #15

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    Sorry folks just to put one conspiracy to bed it was a UK cacher who complained and not Groundspeak.

    The Car Boot was moved on the instructions of Groundspeak, but if you look in the multiple pinned topics at the top the GC UK forum you'll find a permanent link to it.

    The topic which started off all this angst had a link to this forum in my post when I closed it and not to the main Off Topic Forum on GC.

    To be honest I hardly read the GC Forums any more but do have to reply to Report to a Moderator. Including inane Report to a Moderator from Troll accounts [would the owner of SOCK making today's RTaM care to stand up and own up to being the owner?].

    I've done probably over 1,000 caches this month alone, so do people really think I've got the time or inclination to be a hard a**ed forum moderator. Which from the angst caused by one topic being closed, you would believe so! Especially when the owner of that topic comes on here bragging that he's started another topic, with the aim of stirring it.

    Sorry Folks I put up with a mountain of s**te piling on top of me at the start of all of this, I personally do not feel the need to carry on taking more of the same. If you wish to see a truly hard a**ed approach to the modding of the UK GC forum, I'm quite willing to pull completely out of Moderating on there, and concentrate solely on Reviewing UK caches
    My post is my personal opinion and as such you do not have my permission to quote me outside of these forums!

    Dave
    Brenin Tegeingl
    Formerly known as Mancunian Pyrocacher on GC

  16. #16
    FollowMeChaps Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mancunian View Post
    ......... Especially when the owner of that topic comes on here bragging that he's started another topic, with the aim of stirring it.......................
    Sorry, I've been out of touch for a couple of days as it was my father's funeral yesterday but now I'm back I think the above interpretation is a bit unfair Dave. It was not 'stirring' rather trying to get some cross-over traffic between the 2 fora - I feel I know you following several email exchanges on new caches and another matter where we obviously share some personal common ground, that's why I felt I could joke about you in the original thread - I know you visit this forum

    I have been a full supporter of the concept of having the GAGB Forum as the main place for UK geocaching to be discussed and have even added the links to all my cache listings to try and encourage it. However, I like to think myself a realist and admit that it's probably not going to happen - I had been watching this forum every day since the original furore and noted that new postings and discussion was again grounding to a halt so went for the Groundspeak GB one for this innocent and non-contentious thread. Boy am I sorry now!

    No hard feelings please Dave, I know it's not you but I had hoped that following the last incident Groundspeak had reluctantly accepted that moderators had slightly more leeway to interpret 'the rules'. You'll also have possibly noticed that in other threads I have often quote one of my favourite philosophies: "rules are for the guidance of the wise, not the blind following as fools". Please let's be friends again

    Robin

    PS: My apologies to all - I think my use of the term Ayatollah in a derogatory way in the original thread title was inappropriate and I deeply regret it. Please put it down to me being under stress at the time.

  17. #17
    Lactodorum Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mancunian View Post
    If you wish to see a truly hard a**ed approach to the modding of the UK GC forum, I'm quite willing to pull completely out of Moderating on there, and concentrate solely on Reviewing UK caches
    I personally would prefer a sensible and considered approach to reviewing/publishing caches than dilute that by trying to apply a commonsense approach to the so called "Local" forum. If it gave you more time to concentrate on the thing that really matters here (i.e. caches) I would support you in pulling out of moderating.

    I'm sure there are global moderators around who would welcome the chance to "help out". Maybe it would be a useful eye opener for some.

  18. #18
    nobbynobbs Guest

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    Dave, I can't imagine the hassle and time that you are using up doing all of this and trying to organise the new reviewing team.

    Like Lacto said it would be interesting to see people's reactions to you pulling out from moderating.

  19. #19
    FollowMeChaps Guest

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    RTaM? Troll accounts? Sorry, even I don't know that one - please explain.

    More generally shouldn't we all try to avoid shorthand on these fora if we are trying to entice others, including newer members, over here. I'm as guilty as the next but I'll try and avoid in future. IMHO ( Oops! In My Humble Opinion) caching shorthand, as in other walks of life, gives the impression of belonging to a clique and I for one don't want to discourage others from using GAGB ( these) fora.

  20. #20

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    FollowMeChaps wrote:
    RTaM? Troll accounts? Sorry, even I don't know that one - please explain.
    RTaM = Report (a post or thread) to a Moderator.

    A troll is someone who uses a sock puppet account (in other words, an "alter ego") to stir things up in forums.
    ​​Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light. (Dylan Thomas)​


  21. #21

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    Robin I'm truly horrified to hear of your sad loss, I lost my father 10 years ago and still miss him even now. I've just recently celebrated the second anniversary of publishing my first cache, which falls on his Birthday, which makes it a happy and sad day.

    I must apologise for my outburst, it was not fair of me to snap at you.

    As Bill has explained, some one used the Report to a Moderator link on each post on GC, using a account that deliberately hides their main account. To try and cause me personally many issues with the UK Community if I'd paid any attention and actioned it. I did invite this person to repost the complaint using their main account and gave them a reminder of the section of the forum guidelines regarding the use of Sock accounts [Trolls are the nasty version of Socks]

    Maybe the committee would be interested putting a UK version of http://geolex.locusprime.net/ on here so that new comers in the UK to the hobby can be pointed to it, to help them feel more part of the hobby :socool:, I for one would be willing to add it as a Tag Line on GC h34r:
    My post is my personal opinion and as such you do not have my permission to quote me outside of these forums!

    Dave
    Brenin Tegeingl
    Formerly known as Mancunian Pyrocacher on GC

  22. #22

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    Dave, thanks for your suggestion about The Lexicon of Geocaching! I've now replaced the Sticky about new member validation with one entitled "New members, please read this", and included a link to the lexicon and some other useful ones for beginners, along with the original info about validation. We'll think about a UK version of the lexicon.
    Last edited by Bill D (wwh); 29th May 2008 at 11:43 PM. Reason: Misread Dave's post, doh...!
    ​​Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light. (Dylan Thomas)​


  23. #23

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    ah... why bother.....
    Last edited by Muggle; 30th May 2008 at 07:15 AM.
    Muggle - One Voice - One Vote

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    Muggle wrote:
    ah... why bother.....
    With what, Alex?
    ​​Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light. (Dylan Thomas)​


  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D (wwh) View Post
    With what, Alex?
    I did post late last night my opinion that a part of the UK caching community seems to have adopted a pack mentality and has now turned on itself.

    Posting deliberately contentious threads of the UK GC forums doesn't harm GC, it just makes life hard for Dave Pyrocacher who has enough on his plate already. We have already lost two top class reviewers/moderators and are going the right way towards losing a third one.

    TPTB at GCHQ don't really give a **** about the constant bickering and back biting on our forum. It doesn't affect them at all, they are too busy wondering where the next dollar is coming from to put gas in their sports cars now that its over $4.00 a gallon here. (And a short gallon to boot)

    My forum tag line has now been censored by Groundspeak after a well know and previously well respected UK cacher went running telling tales. I don't see how having an advert in my tag line on a UK forum can be seen as commercial when I don't trade in the UK, but someone obviously doesn't agree and ratted on me. And in the long run does my long and acrimonious exchange of emails yesterday with TPTB which resulted in a tag line that I had happily used for six months with the tacit approval of Groundspeak being removed make life on the UK forums any better? Does it improve life for anyone? Well not really. No one likes a snitch and the end result is Zero. No doubt there is smugness in parts of Cheshire.

    So my point was, why all the internal bickering? What does it achieve?
    ****** all really, apart from causing trouble for people who don't deserve it.

    I decided to delete my original post before you all got out of bed this morning, but having slept on it, I'm still confused about the motives of the GC UK forum **** stirrers so I may as well resubmit.
    Muggle - One Voice - One Vote

  26. #26

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    I hadn't noticed your tag line in the gc.com forums, so I can't really comment on that. But I certainly agree that bickering there achieves nothing, and just causes problems for Dave, and that doesn't help cachers in the UK one iota. We've only got one local reviewer/moderator left there now, and I'm sure the majority of UK cachers would hate to lose him, as I would myself.

    Obviously I'm biased, but it seems to me that if people want to discuss dissatisfaction with Groundspeak or anything like that, then here, in a "neutral" forum, is the place to do it. I don't mean to suggest that GAGB has any issues with Groundspeak - we haven't. We work closely with their reviewer(s) and have a good relationship with them. But in these forums, within reason, people are free to speak their minds.

    And as to the price of gas (petrol), tell me about it... A (long) gallon here is now somewhere around the six quid (twelve dollar) mark...!
    ​​Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light. (Dylan Thomas)​


  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D (wwh) View Post
    And as to the price of gas (petrol), tell me about it... A (long) gallon here is now somewhere around the six quid (twelve dollar) mark...!
    Yes, I feel for you on that one. But at least you get other breaks.

    My daughter dropped a stone block on her finger a while back. Three stitches in a split on the end of her finger. $1,000. What a deal !!!!
    Muggle - One Voice - One Vote

  28. #28

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    Muggle wrote:
    My daughter dropped a stone block on her finger a while back. Three stitches in a split on the end of her finger. $1,000. What a deal !!!!
    Ouch, and double ouch...! hmy:
    ​​Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light. (Dylan Thomas)​


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