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Thread: UK 'states'

  1. #1

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    Smile UK 'states'

    GC.com have introduced UK 'states' or regions now.

    You can amend your caches (and profile) to appear in the apporpriate region.

    Its a bit on the flaky side though as searches are not working for the new regions properly yet.

    http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/ind...owtopic=199060
    Happy Caching

    Gazooks

    - Setting a good example for children takes all the fun out of middle age.

  2. #2

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    I'm guessing that a raft of coding updates is being applied. So a little bit of patience is needed [again ]

    Deci
    My post is my personal opinion and as such you do not have my permission to quote me outside of these forums!

    Dave
    Brenin Tegeingl
    Formerly known as Mancunian Pyrocacher on GC

  3. #3

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    Yes, still very poorly at the moment
    Paul (Lord Darcy)



  4. #4

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    Not updating mine, would rather archive them first. A feature without any value to me at all.

  5. #5
    keehotee Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose39uk View Post
    Not updating mine, would rather archive them first. A feature without any value to me at all.
    Got to agree....

    Why, in a country the size of ours (small, that is) would anybody need or want to search by county?

  6. #6
    uktim Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by keehotee View Post
    Got to agree....

    Why, in a country the size of ours (small, that is) would anybody need or want to search by county?
    If folks can't identify local caches without this feature it beats me how they ever manage to find the "on" button on their GPS

  7. #7
    fraggle69 Guest

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    fair comments but if we can PQ all the regions, it'd be piece of cake to keep up to date gsak DB.


  8. #8
    uktim Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by fraggle69 View Post
    fair comments but if we can PQ all the regions, it'd be piece of cake to keep up to date gsak DB.

    I suspect that there isn't a single region thats small enough and has few enough caches to do this

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by uktim View Post
    If folks can't identify local caches without this feature it beats me how they ever manage to find the "on" button on their GPS

    Maybe when the change was requested it may have been of use. There weren't as many caches a few years ago and a entire regions caches would have fitted in a PQ
    Happy Caching

    Gazooks

    - Setting a good example for children takes all the fun out of middle age.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by keehotee View Post
    Got to agree....

    Why, in a country the size of ours (small, that is) would anybody need or want to search by county?
    Well, I don't know... something to stop people in south Wales getting caches on the coast of Somerset and Devon and vice versa etc etc apparently.
    From my point of view, I don't understand why this minor change is such a big problem to some folks. It took me about 30 minutes last night to update all our 30+ caches and drop them into their appropriate "states". Job done. It's an extra feature that I'll probably never use myself but, if it's a help to some other cachers who will use it, then I'm happy to do that small service for them.

    Lucilla

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs Blorenge View Post
    Well, I don't know... something to stop people in south Wales getting caches on the coast of Somerset and Devon and vice versa etc etc apparently.
    From my point of view, I don't understand why this minor change is such a big problem to some folks. It took me about 30 minutes last night to update all our 30+ caches and drop them into their appropriate "states". Job done. It's an extra feature that I'll probably never use myself but, if it's a help to some other cachers who will use it, then I'm happy to do that small service for them.

    Lucilla
    Snap ... I used to (when there weren't so many caches) pick up Cardiff caches as my closest to home!

    I have just updated my cache pages. It is a shame that they couldn't have been done automatically by co ord - and then amended by the cache owner if they didn't agree. As until each cache page is updated, I can't see it being that useful as a lot of caches will be missed with regional searches.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs Blorenge View Post
    Well, I don't know... something to stop people in south Wales getting caches on the coast of Somerset and Devon and vice versa etc etc apparently.
    From my point of view, I don't understand why this minor change is such a big problem to some folks. It took me about 30 minutes last night to update all our 30+ caches and drop them into their appropriate "states". Job done. It's an extra feature that I'll probably never use myself but, if it's a help to some other cachers who will use it, then I'm happy to do that small service for them.

    Lucilla
    Would you like the nearest parking co ords compulsory then as well?

    Bus stops, little glitter trail to the cache perhaps, cache owner sat there with a tray with tea and biscuits just in case it takes more than five minutes to find the cache perhaps?

  13. #13
    uktim Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose39uk View Post
    cache owner sat there with a tray with tea and biscuits just in case it takes more than five minutes to find the cache perhaps?

    NO WAY.


    Coffee and biscuits for me please

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose39uk View Post
    Would you like the nearest parking co ords compulsory then as well?
    Compulsory? No, because it's a variable - what's a good place to one cacher will be "bl**dy h3ll! No way am I leaving my car there!" to another. However we'll always suggest a good parking place as a waypoint, if there's an obvious one nearby.

    Bus stops, (hmmmm - not enough demand for them, I'd guess), little glitter trail to the cache perhaps (only at Christmas time), cache owner sat there with a tray with tea and biscuits just in case it takes more than five minutes to find the cache perhaps? Mr Mongers - you, more than anyone, know that my provision of tea (or coffee for uktim) is second to none - How could I fail to support such an initiative?
    MrsB

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maple Leaf View Post
    Snip .....I have just updated my cache pages...... snip
    I now have to do them again, as I have just discovered this map and found out that Somerset is in the south of England and not the South West (as I had assumed ... and it looks like other people have too when looking at other local caches)

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs Blorenge View Post
    MrsB
    Can we have a change from Hob nobs?

  17. #17
    SidAndBob Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maple Leaf View Post
    It is a shame that they couldn't have been done automatically by co ord - and then amended by the cache owner if they didn't agree. As until each cache page is updated, I can't see it being that useful as a lot of caches will be missed with regional searches.
    Totally agree. I don't think Groundspeak have an I.T. department. Mind you, why should they pay developers for few hours to do a simple task when they can get the admins to spend the next couple of years updating existing records for no cost at all. Seems a criminal waste of our already overworked admins time.

  18. #18

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    Unhappy

    Still say Somerset and Dorset should be in the South Westh34r:

  19. #19
    sTeamTraen Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by SidAndBob View Post
    Totally agree. I don't think Groundspeak have an I.T. department. Mind you, why should they pay developers for few hours to do a simple task when they can get the admins to spend the next couple of years updating existing records for no cost at all. Seems a criminal waste of our already overworked admins time.
    I don't think Groundspeak is suggesting that the reviewers should spend any time at all on updating the existing caches. This is a much-requested feature which will improve the usability of the site a little over time; that's all. It's not a very important site feature in the scheme of things, and not something which I would expect Groundspeak to spend very much in the way of resources on.

    Over 750,000 caches have been listed with the cache owner selecting the country (and in 2/3 of cases, the US/German/Australian state or the Canadian province) by hand. To get this accurate would require metre-level polygon data for every state, region, and country boundary, and that's a big ask. It would have put back implementation of the UK regions by many months. Groundspeak is not in the mapping business and this data, if it's available, is probably very expensive.

    I appreciate that any change to the site will be used by some people as an excuse for a moan about Groundspeak - even it's something which by some miracle everyone agrees is a good idea, the moan will be "well, this should have been done earlier" - but in this case it seems they really can't win. If they had forcibly updated every cache with the regions as defined on the map, they would have had lots of complaints from people that they hadn't been consulted before their cache in Somerset was classed as "South of England", etc.

    As things stand, the decision as to which region a cache is in, is up to the owner and the community. If enough people decide that Somerset is in the South-West then that's where it will be. Groundspeak really doesn't mind.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by sTeamTraen View Post
    If enough people decide that Somerset is in the South-West then that's where it will be. Groundspeak really doesn't mind.


    .....as I believe I asked once before, are you the official European mouthpiece for GSP now Nick? 'Cos if not perhaps you ought not to speak for GSP!

  21. #21
    sTeamTraen Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by dodgydaved View Post
    .....as I believe I asked once before, are you the official European mouthpiece for GSP now Nick? 'Cos if not perhaps you ought not to speak for GSP!
    Nope. As many people have pointed out, you don't often get an official comment by Lackeys even in the official Groundspeak forums. So I wouldn't expect an official reply from Groundspeak in an unofficial forum! I'm just commenting based on what I understand, just as other people who make positive or negative comments about Groundspeak in here presumably do.

    Back on the topic: since Groundspeak don't have any idea where the South West ends and the South begins (other than a line on a Google overlay where it doesn't even seem to be easy to see which regions the labels apply to!), I'm confident in saying that they don't care much about Somerset. It's actually an important point, that if enough people decide that any given boundary is not "right", it can be put right fairly quickly by the local community. That said, I think it's the first time that a country has been split up by non-Government regions. (I'm also interested to see what happens in Northern Ireland now, since the UK regions don't include anything across the Irish Sea; perhaps the pro-UK cachers there will all choose to attach themselves to a particular mainland region?)

  22. #22

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    Exclamation

    The map in the GC forums is just a quick screen shot, and does not show the details which the Google Earth overlay goes down to. Croaghan and myself are working to arrange for hosting of the GE Overlay file, so that people can download it.

    And if you check out the Ireland Regions [yes they got them at the same time] you'll find that Ulster is listed. This covers the 6 counties in Northern Ireland and I believe 2 in Eire. And is a historical division which predates the political division of Ireland, when the Free States were created. And is I believe something people on both sides of the political divide in Northern Ireland accept.

    The Pro UK NI factions argument being that they lived the UK so should be able to list their caches in the UK. Something Jeremy agreed to allow. Groundspeak has reversed this situation now with the sole implementation of Ulster listed within the Ireland filter and not the UK one.

    Deceangi
    My post is my personal opinion and as such you do not have my permission to quote me outside of these forums!

    Dave
    Brenin Tegeingl
    Formerly known as Mancunian Pyrocacher on GC

  23. #23
    sTeamTraen Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mancunian View Post
    The Pro UK NI factions argument being that they lived the UK so should be able to list their caches in the UK. Something Jeremy agreed to allow. Groundspeak has reversed this situation now with the sole implementation of Ulster listed within the Ireland filter and not the UK one.
    Thanks for that. I didn't think it was likely to have been an oversight. I wish you and Niall good luck with the "pushback" (one of my favourite American words/euphemisms) which you'll probably get on this.

    Personally I think it shows that the site shouldn't even include country information, let alone state, on the cache page, but I suppose that until we've abolished all those awkward things like "laws" that the country info will occasionally be useful for reviewing.

    Let's just hope that neither the NI assembly nor the RoI government takes an official position on geocaching which is incompatible with that of the other...

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wadders View Post
    Still say Somerset and Dorset should be in the South Westh34r:
    Just our opinion,but we've always reckoned we don't reach the S.W. until we've passed through the Dorset /Devon border .h34r:


    We like the 3 way split of S.W. , S . & S.E. instead of what we have found to be the more the more common 2 way S.W. /S.E.split .(e.g. house price maps)
    Here , near the Hampshire/Dorset border ,we,ve always felt S. but more often get lumped/placed in with the the S.W.

    .
    We like Greens

  25. #25
    SidAndBob Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by sTeamTraen View Post
    I don't think Groundspeak is suggesting that the reviewers should spend any time at all on updating the existing caches. This is a much-requested feature which will improve the usability of the site a little over time; that's all. It's not a very important site feature in the scheme of things, and not something which I would expect Groundspeak to spend very much in the way of resources on.
    If you read Deceangi's post on the GS forum you will find that this is exactly what they are proposing to do.
    My point was that out reviewers time is being criminally wasted and this point still stands. As to whether you think this change provides a user benefit is a completely separate issue.

  26. #26
    keehotee Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by t.a.folk View Post
    Just our opinion,but we've always reckoned we don't reach the S.W. until we've passed through the Dorset /Devon border .h34r:

    .
    And living in Exeter I've always felt firmly in the East-of-that-bit-that-comes-just-west-of-the-big-bit-on-the-south-coast, with the true south west only starting at the Little Chef on the A30 at Chacewater by the Truro turn-off.

    But the people actually living and placing caches in Dorset and Somerset might have their own opinions on the matter......... h34r:

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by keehotee View Post
    And living in Exeter I've always felt firmly in the East-of-that-bit-that-comes-just-west-of-the-big-bit-on-the-south-coast, with the true south west only starting at the Little Chef on the A30 at Chacewater by the Truro turn-off.

    h34r:
    I suggest that this far SW region should be recognised as a separate "state", coloured octarin, and named "Here be Piskies".


  28. #28
    keehotee Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs Blorenge View Post
    I suggest that this far SW region should be recognised as a separate "state", coloured octarin, and named "Here be Piskies".
    Sounds like a plan - shall we suggest it to TPTB.... :wacko::wacko:
    This would fit in perfectly with my own regional descriptors:-

    The God zone.
    Welsh Wales.
    North of Watford Gap.
    South of Watford Gap.
    and Larndon.

    I had to include London as a separate region to cover areas such as South London by-the Sea (Poole to Chichester, including Southampton and Portsmouth)
    East London by-the-Sea (Kent and most of East Anglia)
    and North London (any bits south of WG that didn't want to be)

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by sTeamTraen View Post
    Thanks for that. I didn't think it was likely to have been an oversight. I wish you and Niall good luck with the "pushback" (one of my favourite American words/euphemisms) which you'll probably get on this.

    Personally I think it shows that the site shouldn't even include country information, let alone state, on the cache page, but I suppose that until we've abolished all those awkward things like "laws" that the country info will occasionally be useful for reviewing.

    Let's just hope that neither the NI assembly nor the RoI government takes an official position on geocaching which is incompatible with that of the other...
    There was already a issue with some NI caches being listed under Ireland and some being listed under the UK. The UK listed ones even creating issues for Scottish cachers. At least this way they will in future come under one filter. And one reviewer rather than the 2 each covering 2 different countries. So that person will have the primary responsibility of formating a initial approach to any such issues, if they developed.It has already happened here in the UK. Land Access laws in Scotland are more open than in the rest of the UK. Which results in a slightly different reviewing approach between the 2. And even before the loss of the members of the reviewer team, I was covering both sides of the border

    Deci
    My post is my personal opinion and as such you do not have my permission to quote me outside of these forums!

    Dave
    Brenin Tegeingl
    Formerly known as Mancunian Pyrocacher on GC

  30. #30
    sTeamTraen Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by SidAndBob View Post
    If you read Deceangi's post on the GS forum you will find that this is exactly what they are proposing to do.
    My point was that out reviewers time is being criminally wasted and this point still stands.
    I think I've found the post to which you are referring:
    http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/ind...post&p=3564365

    I read this to mean that Deci is volunteering to do this as part of the service he provides to the community. I assume that his comment that "if you don't like me doing this, you can complain to Groundspeak" as a joke, perhaps gently referring to any people who might claim not to want this information to appear on their caches as some point of principle, rather than a suggestion that if he's doing it, it's because Groundspeak told him to do so. (Perhaps the man himself could clear that up for us. )

    Although this feature is potentially a useful way to divide up a country for reviewing purposes, it is not necessarily the simplest (because of the way the reviewing software works), and in any case, the "state" info will be in place automatically for all newly-submitted caches from now on. Thus, the benefit to the reviewers in Deci doing this is very small compared to the benefit to the caching community, and I am full of admiration for his unselfish dedication.

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mancunian View Post
    The map in the GC forums is just a quick screen shot, and does not show the details which the Google Earth overlay goes down to. Croaghan and myself are working to arrange for hosting of the GE Overlay file, so that people can download it.
    Are you still looking for a host for the file?

    If you are I could add it to this page of downloadable map data.
    http://www.ukgeocachers.co.uk/garminoverlays/index.php

    Ian
    "I Cache, therefore I am"

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