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Thread: 'mega' Flashmob Event?

  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mancunian View Post
    Sorry Liane you seem to be stating that just getting 500 people to attend means the event automatically gets Mega status.
    No I wasn't stating that at all. I was quoting directly from the guidelines written by them. If there's any question about what it actually means, then you need to have a word with them. I was also making it clear that Groundspeak have the final say on the matter, not our local volunteer reviewers (no offence intended).

    https://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#mega
    Last edited by The Cache Hoppers; 8th September 2008 at 10:06 AM.

  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mancunian View Post
    ...Everyone who uses any Groundspeak project agrees to the TOU on signing up.

    Groundspeak may change, suspend, or discontinue any portion of the Site, or any service offered on the Site, at any time, including but not limited to any feature, database, application, or content. Groundspeak may also impose limits on certain features offered on the Site with or without notice.

    Which covers how they decide what events are granted Mega status.
    C'mon Dave, that's just the generic T&C there That's basically a Groundspeak catch-all for each and every cache that's ever submitted, and it doesn't apply specifically to a Mega. It could just as easily refer to a micro under a bench, a box in a park, an ammo can on the moors, etc etc!

    I have to re-ask, if I was to consider planning a Mega in the future, would I get the full support of the UK reviewing team, bearing in mind I wouldn't be part of a "committee"?

  3. #53

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    Yes the TOU's are generic which is why you can not read the Guidelines to state that Mega Events, by just meeting the 500 attendees level will guarantee a event will go Mega. Groundspeak decide on a case by case basis, the TOU's cover this and allows them to refuse to upgrade a a event to a Mega even if 1,000 + attended.

    As I've pointed out I personally don't believe a Flash Mob Event is a Geocaching event. Especially as they were originally just a way of getting around the Groundspeak ban on 1 minute events. And how many Geocaching Flash Mob events are true to type? The idea behind such events is for people to suddenly congregate in a area for a specific time and then disperse. How many times do attendees of Geocaching ones then go on to socialise with each other.

    So if you were planning any sort of Mega Flash Mob Event, then No you wouldn't get my support [I can't answer for any other Reviewer as I've not discused the issue with them]. But if you wereplanning a Mega event which had the aim of allowing the attendess to socialise with each other, then yes.

    Deci

    personal opinion now based on what I've heard from the members of the UK community. The UK community as a small community could realistically expect to only support one Mega Event per year. So I 'd suggest you put yourself forward to organise the 2011 M4 UK Mega Event. I'm sure people would agree the North West of England would be a suitable location for a Mega Event. But not near Blackpool, I don't have bottomless pockets .
    I'm holidaying in the Bristol area in 2009, Scotland 2010 and the NW 2011?
    My post is my personal opinion and as such you do not have my permission to quote me outside of these forums!

    Dave
    Brenin Tegeingl
    Formerly known as Mancunian Pyrocacher on GC

  4. #54
    keehotee Guest

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    According to the full Event Cache guidelines copied below, the only three things to make a gathering a Geocaching event are:-
    1. Organised by Geocachers.
    2. Open to all geocachers.
    3. Not set up for the sole purpose of drawing together cachers for the search of another cache or caches.
    There is nothing in there to suggest that events have to have anything at all to do with socialising with other cachers, for any length of time at all.
    If the personal opinions of TPTB are a deciding factor, they should also be listed.

    So if a flash mob event of whatever size meets all the published guidelines, and doesn't infringe any other published rulings, how would Groundspeak justify refusing it?

    p.s. I'm not personally a fan of flashmob events either - but I'm even less of a fan of hidden agendas and unwritten rules.



    Event Caches

    Event caches are gatherings that are open to all geocachers and which are organized by geocachers. While a music concert, a garage sale, an organized sporting event, a ham radio field day or a town’s fireworks display might be of interest to a large percentage of geocachers, such events are not suitable for submission as event caches because the organizers and the primary attendees are not geocachers. In addition, an event cache should not be set up for the sole purpose of drawing together cachers for an organized hunt of another cache or caches. Such group hunts are best organized using the forums or an email distribution list.
    For geocaching events that involve several components, such as a full weekend event that includes a geocoin trading session, a seminar and a potluck dinner, multiple event listings may be submitted if they each stand on their own merits as events meeting the listing guidelines.
    Event caches should be submitted no less than two weeks prior to the date of the event, so that potential attendees will have sufficient notice to make their plans. Events are generally published no more than three months prior to the date of the event, to avoid having the listing appear for a prolonged period of time on the nearest caches page and in the weekly e-mail notification of new caches. Exceptions are sometimes made for events that are designed to attract a regional, national or international group of geocachers, or if an overnight stay is expected as part of the event, requiring advance reservations and travel planning (for example, a campout). Contact your reviewer if you wish to set up such an event, which may be published up to six months prior to the event date. Groundspeak can promote Geocaching through events that may be an exception to the guidelines, if we deem that is necessary to further the game.
    After the event has passed, the event cache should be archived by the organizer within four weeks.

  5. #55

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    The point I was making having previously stated that despite my opinion of them, if a Flash Mob meets the Guidelines I will publish it. Is that even if a Flash Mob had over 500 attendees, there is no guarantee it would be granted Mega Status by Groundspeak. Again as previously stated, at least one event which had well over 500 verified attendees. Was refused Mega Status by Groundspeak.

    500 Attendees does not mean Mega Status, it means Groundspeak will consider Mega Status for the Event.

    If the personal opinions of TPTB are a deciding factor, they should also be listed
    GC is their site, so what is listed is decided by their opinions. And a one minute event will not be accepted for listing on GC, so they have already set a minimum time limit for events. Just like the removal of Virtual-Webcam and locationless categories was a decision made exclusivly by them
    My post is my personal opinion and as such you do not have my permission to quote me outside of these forums!

    Dave
    Brenin Tegeingl
    Formerly known as Mancunian Pyrocacher on GC

  6. #56
    nobbynobbs Guest

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    Don't worry I also fall into the not really bothered with flash mob events as I enjoy meeting the people there and having fun.

    It's just strange that they have left this rather ambiguous. That just leaves the door open for people to get frustrated and so on. It also means that the local review team tend to get the brunt of that.

    You'd have thought it would be quite easy to word some guidelines that made it much clearer and saved all the hassle. I mean let's be honest how long does it take to type: " Flash mob events will never be considered for mega status" into the guidelines?

    Now the idea of a flash mob side line at the next mega would be fun. At a certain time all the attendees have to stand in the field at their given co-ords so that they spell something. Then all we need is to either be able to capture the image by camera on a kite ( any volunteers?) or by some other means.

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobbynobbs View Post
    ...I mean let's be honest how long does it take to type: " Flash mob events will never be considered for mega status" into the guidelines?...
    It looks like a flash mob could well go Mega, certainly reading what reviewers past and present have stated. I wouldn't set one, and wouldn't particularly rave about it, but good luck to anyone who wants to It would be no mean feat to get 500 people to attend it, that's for sure.

    I'd have to disagree with Deccy - I reckon the UK could easily support 2 Mega's in a year. Not necessarily two Mega's in the style of the "UK's First Mega Event", but with a bit of creative thinking, why not?

    Groundspeak's rules are as clear on a Mega event as they are on a Micro cache - the disclaimer affects the whole site. I can't knock GS on this occasion Of COURSE they are going to have some T&C, but let's not think that they are designed solely to beat anyone with a stick that dare suggest setting an alternative kind of Mega.

  8. #58
    fraggle69 Guest

    Unhappy

    It's that old chestnut, where GS will change the rules or find a sub txt in the T&C to p***us off!
    Last edited by Mongoose39uk; 9th September 2008 at 10:47 PM. Reason: once again :( please edit yourself, not a good pastime for me

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by fraggle69 View Post
    It's that old chestnut, where GS will change the rules or find a sub txt in the T&C to pxxx us off!
    fraggle - If you are absolutely serious and keen to do a Mega FlashMob Event why not just start the process off by contacting Groundspeak with your basic plan of what you would like to do and see what happens?

    Send it to contact@geocaching.com and head it "Proposal for a Mega Flashmob Event", or something similar.


    Lucilla
    Last edited by Mongoose39uk; 9th September 2008 at 10:48 PM.

  10. #60
    fraggle69 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs Blorenge View Post
    fraggle - If you are absolutely serious and keen to do a Mega FlashMob Event why not just start the process off by contacting Groundspeak with your basic plan of what you would like to do and see what happens?

    Send it to contact@geocaching.com and head it "Proposal for a Mega Flashmob Event", or something similar.


    Lucilla

    Ahh that's how I do it........

    If a reviewer does not support it, how does that affect the process and what do I get if a reviewer does support it?? Was Deci meaning he wouldn't publish it, or does support have a deeper meaning?

    I am a bit confused as to what has previously been stated.

  11. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by fraggle69 View Post
    Ahh that's how I do it........

    If a reviewer does not support it, how does that affect the process and what do I get if a reviewer does support it?? Was Deci meaning he wouldn't publish it, or does support have a deeper meaning?

    I am a bit confused as to what has previously been stated.
    He has quite clearly stated he will publish it even if he does not like it.

  12. #62
    keehotee Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs Blorenge View Post
    Send it to contact@geocaching.com and head it "Proposal for a Mega Flashmob Event", or something similar.


    Lucilla
    Isn't that a dead address?
    None of the emails I've sent there over the past month have been replied to.
    And yes, before anybody asks, they were all perfectly civil and were asking reasonable questions.......

  13. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by keehotee View Post
    Isn't that a dead address?
    None of the emails I've sent there over the past month have been replied to.
    That has been many people's experience, mine included, recently. The same applies to the other "catch all" address - appeal@geocaching.com. To my mind if a company advertises a contact address it really ought to provide sufficient resources to respond in a reasonable time. This is plainly not happening.

    As the people you are trying to reach work for Groundspeak have you tried contacting them direct? You might try michael@groundspeak.com, jenn@groundspeak.com etc. It's worth a try.

  14. #64
    fraggle69 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mancunian View Post
    I posted the question immediately I offered to, in the Reviewers Forum. A good discussion took place. The reply from Groundspeak is that they will consider any request for a Flash Mob Event to be upgraded to a mega after the event has taken place.

    Deci

    Seems that's not exactly the case. They've considered my request for a Mega FME and have declined to grant mega status using the following quote.
    Jenn wrote
    The Knowledgebase article says:
    " We do not allow the use of Mega-Event designation to increase the size of a normally large event to become a larger Mega-Event. Doing so would lead to many requests from cachers who want their semi-large event to become larger by virtue of the cache type. Rather, we would like the designation to be granted on the merits of the actual event. This is why some events attain mega status after a few annual iterations, and not at the first year. "

    "So, your 1st year at this will certainly not be given mega status. Assuming you actually get 500+ people and want to do it again another year, we may consider it."
    end quote

    I presume this is a little of what this years mega event committe came up against, in which case it's a load of black hole!

  15. #65
    keehotee Guest

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    Hot off the press......

    Michael LaPaglia to me
    show details 9:58 PM (2 minutes ago)

    Reply

    Please take a moment to look at the current guidelines.

    Mega-Event Caches

    Mega-Events are a special designation reserved for only the largest event caches – those which attract geocachers to attend on a regional, national or international level. To qualify as a Mega-Event, the organizers must obtain prior approval from Groundspeak – not from their volunteer cache reviewer. Among other requirements, the organizers must demonstrate a substantial likelihood that at least 500 people will attend the event. A Mega-Event Cache may be published up to one year prior to the event date. A regular Event Cache can be changed to a Mega-Event Cache after the fact, if the organizers demonstrate to Groundspeak that more than 500 people attended.

    As you can see from the highlights the guidelines state that you have to talk to us about it and that there are other requirements than the one listed.

    At some point we will update them At this time its so new we are still figuring it out. The terms of use do cover things like this in cases like this.

    Groundspeak may change, suspend, or discontinue any portion of the Site, or any service offered on the Site, at any time, including but not limited to any feature, database, application, or content. Groundspeak may also impose limits on certain features offered on the Site with or without notice.

    Once we get it all figured out we will be able to explain it better.


    Please let me know if you have any further questions.

    Michael LaPaglia
    Community Relations Specialist

  16. #66

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    Ruddy nora! Fair play to Michael for a detailed answer but they really should get their act together, it's not exactly encouraging you to consider setting one, is it!!!

    Still, where there's a will....!

  17. #67
    fraggle69 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by PopUpPirate View Post
    Ruddy nora! Fair play to Michael for a detailed answer but they really should get their act together, it's not exactly encouraging you to consider setting one, is it!!!

    Still, where there's a will....!
    Exactly,
    I am not going through the organising of a huge flashmob Event or Standard Event, just so I can re-enact it a year later, it should be a do or die moment.
    I don't understand what they're trying to say, in one way they're saying it has to be an annual event and yet they're saying events that run annualy with big numbers can't be upgraded. I am loosing the plot here or what.?
    Don't see why they can't give mega status and then judge it after the evnt, it would take a lot of ambiguity outta the situation.

  18. #68

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    I'm pleased that people are getting responses from GSP but now I'm confused (yes I know!! )

    Michael quotes the Guidelines:
    A regular Event Cache can be changed to a Mega-Event Cache after the fact, if the organizers demonstrate to Groundspeak that more than 500 people attended.
    Then Jenn Says
    "So, your 1st year at this will certainly not be given mega status. Assuming you actually get 500+ people and want to do it again another year, we may consider it."
    So the Guidelines say it CAN be upgraded if 500+ attend but Jenn is saying that it certainly WON'T be. I can well understand that to get "Mega" status before the event needs a lot of work to convince GSP, but to have it awarded AFTER an event where you have proof that 500+ attended should be almost automatic.

  19. #69

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    Perhaps they don't want to send an Observer in the Executive jet for only 15 minutes.........

  20. #70

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    "So, your 1st year at this will certainly not be given mega status. Assuming you actually get 500+ people and want to do it again another year, we may consider it."
    So, just how lucky was the UK to get a Mega this year?!!

    And then "We may consider it another year"

    Our rules.
    We do as WE like.
    I have a Geocaching problem...
    Work gets in the way!

    * Cache Walker -Caching by byway, not highway! CacheWalker.co.uk
    Walking and Caching in Warwickshire, Worcestershire, Gloucestershire areas

  21. #71
    fraggle69 Guest

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    Anybody gonna clarify the situation? Or are the Lackeys trying to hatch an evil "new rule" - heaven forbid.

  22. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by fraggle69 View Post
    Anybody gonna clarify the situation? Or are the Lackeys trying to hatch an evil "new rule" - heaven forbid.
    From somewhere in GS HQ

    "Quick, the UK cachers are starting to understand the rules (oops!) guidelines, change them again!"
    I have a Geocaching problem...
    Work gets in the way!

    * Cache Walker -Caching by byway, not highway! CacheWalker.co.uk
    Walking and Caching in Warwickshire, Worcestershire, Gloucestershire areas

  23. #73
    fraggle69 Guest

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    My emails gone unanswered so I guess you're right about them re-writting the rules.
    Maybe get a straight answer one day, but I am not holding my breath. I suspect they're hoping I just move along queitly, in a sort of not fully undertanding anything kind of a way.


  24. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by fraggle69 View Post
    .... I suspect they're hoping I just move along queitly, in a sort of not fully undertanding anything kind of a way.

    They don't know you very well then do they

  25. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by fraggle69 View Post
    My emails gone unanswered so I guess you're right about them re-writting the rules.
    Maybe get a straight answer one day, but I am not holding my breath. I suspect they're hoping I just move along queitly, in a sort of not fully undertanding anything kind of a way.

    Or perhaps they're snowed under, as has been implied by others...
    If there was a competition for witty signatures, I'd come last.

  26. #76
    fraggle69 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgemaster View Post
    Or perhaps they're snowed under, as has been implied by others...
    Yeah man, re-writting the rules hmy:

  27. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by fraggle69 View Post
    Yeah man, re-writting the rules hmy:

    Why are we surprised? The writing was on the wall 5 months ago

  28. #78

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    Haggis Hunter has a FME event planned for the 8th November in Edinburgh. He's going to add a bit of a twist to it, so it should be fun! (as long as it doesn't involve me taking all my clothes off, I've already done that one)
    I'm just going outside, and may be some time!

    www.jacobitecaching.co.uk

  29. #79
    fraggle69 Guest

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    I am still waiting for a reply from groundspeak.com or is it .****? silence him who speaks agains the lord frog?. hmm

  30. #80
    fraggle69 Guest

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    still no reply to my email and no clarification offered by groundspeak on the matter.
    tick tock......toss***

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