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Thread: When is a new cache not a new cache?

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  1. #1

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    We(s)t Cumbria
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    Question When is a new cache not a new cache?

    A local cacher offered his caches up for adoption last autumn but now isn't responding to emails and hasn't logged into his account for months. Since forced adoption is a thing of the past the only option for getting one going again is for it to be archived and the adopter submitting a new listing and this is starting to happen. So it's same cache name, container (maybe) and coordinates but a different waypoint - if you had found the original cache would you log the 'new' one?

    We all play the game differently, just interested in opinions.

    MBF

  2. #2
    keehotee Guest

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    Yes

    Have done before when a local cache was "rereleased" as a trad rather than a puzzle.
    I came at it from a different direction and didn't realise it was the same cache until I was on top of it.
    If it's got a new waypoint, and you revisit it, then log it again.

  3. #3
    Alan White Guest

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    Yes, I'd log it "again". Actually, I don't think of it as "again" as I operate a "one GC# = one find" principle.

    I think this new policy of Groundspeak's is daft. There's little value in encouraging cachers back to the same place, and having to submit a new cache just causes extra work for the reviewers.

  4. #4

    Join Date
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    Land of the Bear and Ragged Staff!
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    It's same cache name, container (maybe) and coordinates but a different waypoint - if you had found the original cache would you log the 'new' one?
    If it was a local one, yes. To clear my 'local unfound' list.

    If it was further away, yes, but only if it was 'in passing' to/from other caches.
    I have a Geocaching problem...
    Work gets in the way!

    * Cache Walker -Caching by byway, not highway! CacheWalker.co.uk
    Walking and Caching in Warwickshire, Worcestershire, Gloucestershire areas

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    Yes - If it has a new waypoint then as far as I'm concerned it's a new cache and we'll happily log it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan White View Post
    Yes, I'd log it "again". Actually, I don't think of it as "again" as I operate a "one GC# = one find" principle.

    I think this new policy of Groundspeak's is daft. There's little value in encouraging cachers back to the same place, and having to submit a new cache just causes extra work for the reviewers.
    I'm quite happy to visit the same place again because almost all the caches we've visited have been in "worthwhile" spots... and if I knew the "new" cache location wasn't particularly "worthwhile" (IMO) then we just wouldn't bother with it, unless we happened to be passing nearby.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    May 2004
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    South East Wales
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    From the beak of The Big Green Bird:
    Re the adoption question. Basically geocaching.com is a listing site and they (groundspeak) do not own the caches placed, these remain the property of the person who placed them. If the cache is still fine but the owner has apparantly abandoned it we cannot transfer it nor can anyone apply to adopt it unless the owner agrees. If they won't respond there is nothing that can be done. There was a case where a cache owner had died and the cache, as his property passed to his next of kin and they would have had to give permission. If the cache has gone missing it can be archived within the guidelines. This does free up the 'space' it occupies for another cache to be placed. If the cache is still physically there but badly damaged so it is in effect no longer a cache the same rules apply and whilst it may be considered 'geolitter' it still belongs to the owner. If another cacher out of a sense of responsibility for the environment decided to remove it and request that it be archived we would consider the case based on the guidelines.

    The arguement for putting another cache in the same place is that it may be a special location either for the views, the history or even significance of a very old cache placement and people would like that spot to 'live on' with another cache placed there.

    As for finding a 'new' cache and logging it I think that is down to individual preferences. We all have our own way of caching.

    It doesn't really cause us much more work apart from a few extra emails. Archiving takes a second to do (as does unarchiving if asked ).

    I hope this provides some clarification of the issue.

    Chris - Mr Blorenge

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Blorenge View Post
    From the beak of The Big Green Bird:
    Re the adoption question. Basically geocaching.com is a listing site and they (groundspeak) do not own the caches placed, these remain the property of the person who placed them. If the cache is still fine but the owner has apparantly abandoned it we cannot transfer it nor can anyone apply to adopt it unless the owner agrees. If they won't respond there is nothing that can be done. There was a case where a cache owner had died and the cache, as his property passed to his next of kin and they would have had to give permission. If the cache has gone missing it can be archived within the guidelines. This does free up the 'space' it occupies for another cache to be placed. If the cache is still physically there but badly damaged so it is in effect no longer a cache the same rules apply and whilst it may be considered 'geolitter' it still belongs to the owner. If another cacher out of a sense of responsibility for the environment decided to remove it and request that it be archived we would consider the case based on the guidelines.

    The arguement for putting another cache in the same place is that it may be a special location either for the views, the history or even significance of a very old cache placement and people would like that spot to 'live on' with another cache placed there.

    As for finding a 'new' cache and logging it I think that is down to individual preferences. We all have our own way of caching.

    It doesn't really cause us much more work apart from a few extra emails. Archiving takes a second to do (as does unarchiving if asked ).

    I hope this provides some clarification of the issue.

    Chris - Mr Blorenge
    Your response has got me thinking about my caches. My caches will soon be archived on GC.com, and will be listed on my own site. Do GSP reveiwers take into account caches that are already hidden, but aren't listed on GC.com (eg: terracaches, navicaches, or my caches)?, or do you just look at GSP listed caches, and allow another cache to be placed regardless of it's close proximity to a non-GSP cache?

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    Church Warsop, Notts
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Blorenge View Post
    From the beak of The Big Green Bird:
    Re the adoption question. Basically geocaching.com is a listing site and they (groundspeak) do not own the caches placed, these remain the property of the person who placed them. If the cache is still fine but the owner has apparantly abandoned it we cannot transfer it nor can anyone apply to adopt it unless the owner agrees. If they won't respond there is nothing that can be done. There was a case where a cache owner had died and the cache, as his property passed to his next of kin and they would have had to give permission.
    Just to try and clarify this: as well as Groundspeak not owning the physical caches (which I think most of us would have assumed would be the case), I believe that they also don't claim to own the cache listings. That's what you're really talking about here.

    So cache descriptions remain the property of the original author, which is why they can only be archived (not deleted, amended or transferred) unless the author has given permission.

    Groundspeak cannot do anything about a physical cache, but could archive a listing on the basis that there's evidence that the owner has abandoned the listing and is not responding to e-mails. That's as far as Groundspeak can go.

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