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Thread: Why the no commercial caches guideline?

  1. #1
    Icenians Guest

    Default Why the no commercial caches guideline?

    Hi,

    I've been looking to become a member of the GAGB again and as part of that thought I'd check the guidelines to see if they've changed over the years.

    Almost all of the guidelines have a sensible and common sense reasoning behind them. Permission, wildlife, kids, etc. Why the no commercial guideline? Where is the justification behind this guideline? Surely that is down to the listing site. Some don't allow commercial whilst others do.

    Kev

  2. #2

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    I agree 100%

    It's a while since I looked at the GAGB guidelines and I'd forgotten that one was there. While GSP don't allow anything vaguely commercial, there's no good reason I can think of why local best practice should disallow the idea.

  3. #3

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    It is certainly one to consider when the guidelines are next reviewed.

    Possibly goes back to the software in caches incident?
    Last edited by Mongoose39uk; 20th October 2008 at 08:06 PM. Reason: fuddled

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hornet View Post
    I agree 100%

    It's a while since I looked at the GAGB guidelines and I'd forgotten that one was there. While GSP don't allow anything vaguely commercial, there's no good reason I can think of why local best practice should disallow the idea.
    But would it be allowed to be listted 'over there'?
    I have a Geocaching problem...
    Work gets in the way!

    * Cache Walker -Caching by byway, not highway! CacheWalker.co.uk
    Walking and Caching in Warwickshire, Worcestershire, Gloucestershire areas

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear and Ragged View Post
    But would it be allowed to be listted 'over there'?
    Probably not but there are other listing sites out there that may allow it.
    "I Cache, therefore I am"

  6. #6
    uktim Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hornet View Post
    I agree 100%

    It's a while since I looked at the GAGB guidelines and I'd forgotten that one was there. While GSP don't allow anything vaguely commercial, there's no good reason I can think of why local best practice should disallow the idea.
    Surely it's got to be a good to keep commercial caches out of the game. What do cachers stand to gain from commercial caches?

    At present the GAGB doesn't even allow commercial adverts on it's forums!

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by uktim View Post
    Surely it's got to be a good to keep commercial caches out of the game. What do cachers stand to gain from commercial caches?

    At present the GAGB doesn't even allow commercial adverts on it's forums!
    Some listing sites may think so, some may not. That's not the point. The GAGB guidelines promote good practice for "low impact" caching relevant to this country. GAGB isn't a listing site so doesn't have to be bound by the internal constraints imposed by any particular company.

    As for what cachers stand to gain from commercialism, you only have to look at the recent Garmin/Blacks/Millets geocoin promotion to see a generally welcomed commercial venture.

  8. #8
    uktim Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hornet View Post
    Some listing sites may think so, some may not. That's not the point. The GAGB guidelines promote good practice for "low impact" caching relevant to this country. GAGB isn't a listing site so doesn't have to be bound by the internal constraints imposed by any particular company.

    As for what cachers stand to gain from commercialism, you only have to look at the recent Garmin/Blacks/Millets geocoin promotion to see a generally welcomed commercial venture.
    Of course it was welcomed everyone likes a free gift, but is caching any better off for it

    There's no denying that we all benefit from commercial activities for much of our lives, but I find it hard to see how caching would gain from allowing commercial caches. If we consider the risks of creating the sort of intense activity that the Garmin coins caused around quiet cache sites it doesn't seem consistant with the ethos of low impact caching.

    I can think of at least two ways that I could use my own caches to increase revenue from things that I already do. The present guidelines wouldn't allow me to do so and I think that it is quite right that they prevent such activities. Caching is a hobby, if we want to profit from it we can sell cache containers, GPS units, swag, geocoins etc, please let us keep the caches themselves free from blatant commercialisation.

  9. #9
    Icenians Guest

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    The problem I have is that as I cache on Terracaching I'm a sponsor, and therefore an approver, of caches. This guideline puts me in a difficult position.

    As a GAGB member I would be agreeing to the GAGB guidelines, as an approver I can argue against dry stone walls, etc but not against commercial caches as they are not disallowed on TC. So if one of my sponsors wants to place a cache that is clearly commercial what right do I have to stop that? It becomes a personel view.

    We don't have to go to the stage of 'cache sponsored by Blacks' stage to be classed as commercial but just placing one that requires buying a drink in a pub would be commercial. This sort of thing is not discouraged on TC as the idea is to allow creativity.

    I don't see that the Commercial guideline falls within the remit of the GAGB in the same way as the others do.

    Kev

  10. #10

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    Premium member only caches are commercial caches.

    Very similar to the camping thread with this one
    "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning."

  11. #11
    uktim Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Icenians View Post
    The problem I have is that as I cache on Terracaching I'm a sponsor, and therefore an approver, of caches. This guideline puts me in a difficult position.

    As a GAGB member I would be agreeing to the GAGB guidelines, as an approver I can argue against dry stone walls, etc but not against commercial caches as they are not disallowed on TC. So if one of my sponsors wants to place a cache that is clearly commercial what right do I have to stop that? It becomes a personel view.

    We don't have to go to the stage of 'cache sponsored by Blacks' stage to be classed as commercial but just placing one that requires buying a drink in a pub would be commercial. This sort of thing is not discouraged on TC as the idea is to allow creativity.

    I don't see that the Commercial guideline falls within the remit of the GAGB in the same way as the others do.

    Kev
    It's just as valid as any other guidelines that may be issued IMO. It would be a mistake to start removing guidelines merely because someone of a conflict of interest for a few indivduals. As a reviewer your primary duty is follow the rules laid down by the body you are reviewing for, it doesn't follow that any organisations you belong to have to alter their guidelines to accomodate TC reviewers any more than they should make changes to accomodate GS reviewers. Such conflicts often exist in life and it's down to each individual to deal with them rather than asking for rules or guidelines to be altered.

    As an aside "Sponsored by Blacks" would be far more acceptable than a requirement to buy a drink to complete a cache. I could insist that you had to buy a geocoin on the way back to your car in order to log our cache but it wouldn't really be fair or in the spirit of caching IMO.

  12. #12

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    I'm all for less rules, and always on the onus to say "Yes", or "Publish", so I wanted camping to be a free-for-all and I'd say also with sensible commercial stuff too

  13. #13
    uktim Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by PopUpPirate View Post
    I'm all for less rules, and always on the onus to say "Yes", or "Publish", so I wanted camping to be a free-for-all and I'd say also with sensible commercial stuff too
    Who defines what is sensible? No commercial caches is a simple "rule" that avoids leaving reviewers with the hard job of defining "sensible". Do we really lose much because this rule exists?

    I'm sure we only have the dry stone wall thing because it's easier than promoting common sense and good behaviour. Maybe we should remove that "rule" as well?

  14. #14

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    I'm always wary of rule creep, and it's easy to have no churchyard caches, no commercial caches, no caches in railway stations, no caches in bus stations, no caches in recreation grounds, no caches in parks, no caches in retail parks, no caches with risk, no caches that discriminate against the athletically challenged, no caches in farmyards, etc etc

    Far better to allow the reviewers to use that uncommon sense that they possess, rather than being bound by the book. So - who defines what is sensible? The reviewer of course. The hard job is not defining sensible - it's using discretion, which should be a prerequisite for publishing any cache. Again - with the onus on "Yes".

    The other options are drafting out a series of rules for hypothetical situations and being bogged down by buero... buero... red tape

    It's a fun activity... gc.com aren't the governing body... lets keep the rules out of it please

  15. #15
    Icenians Guest

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    Maybe I shouldn't have brought up the reviewing bit, it isn't relevant within the GAGB! GAGB isn't a listing site so has nothing to review.

    My point is that most of the GAGB guidelines are about protecting the wildlife, environment, and cachers. Commercial caching is a different thing and seems to be a preference that someone has. It doesn't fit in with the others.

    I strongly disagree with the comment that we shouldn't ask for rule changes. Just because a guideline or rule was valid once doesn't make it valid forever!

    Now, where did I put that long bow. Better get some practice in

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