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Thread: Vent My Sleen

  1. #1

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    I was ridiculed for being persuaded to try for the committee of GAGB and being an approver for Geocaching.com at the same instance. I was left in no uncertain terms that I would have a conflict of interests between the two.

    Now hear we are a few weeks down the line and polling started for GAGB committee and what do we have! A candidate who is standing for GAGB committee and is a central figure of GC:UK namely Teasle.. WHY?

    You might call this sour grapes well I can assure you people that you are dead right. And please Iceians.. this is not in anyway a dig at you. If anything for once we are probably on the same side..

    I approved caches nothing more.. here we have some one involved in and I quote ďI have approached Peak District National Park rangers about getting permission to place a night cache on their land; I am trying to foster a more positive relationship between us and the Modern Antiquarians; and I am on the organizing committee for a major geocaching event next year (can't say more until it's been given the OK by the council&#33. I have also contacted English Heritage, who have agreed to send me a database of all the Scheduled Ancient Monuments in EnglandĒ

    I donít see anything in there to say on behalf of GAGB.. I do note the comment about a NATIONAL event ?????? That does not seem to invole GAGB either.

    Can Teasle categorically state that any comment/decision/finding/idea to do with GAGB will not influence his ways on GC:UK or Visa Versa, I THINK NOT.

    Hypocrisy is bad enough in its simplest sense but when it jumps up and slaps you in the face it makes you positively sick.


    Very :angry:
    Moss The Boss... Sorta

  2. #2
    Teasel Guest

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    Originally posted by Moss Trooper@Sep 9 2003, 07:58 PM
    I donít see anything in there to say on behalf of GAGB.. I do note the comment about a NATIONAL event ?????? That does not seem to invole GAGB either.
    In general, when dealing with others, I tend to keep G:UK out of the correspondance wherever possible. The fact that I've written some C and PHP code which helps geocachers find caches near them, and interesting stats about themselves, doesn't seem very relevant when talking to National Park rangers or English Heritage. All of the above, especially the national event, do not involve either GAGB or G:UK, they're just things I'm doing because I think they're good for geocaching. Indeed, for the event, we're going to great lengths to avoid using G:UK resources wherever we can (though, admittedly, the committee discussion forum is temporarily hosted there while I set up a forum elsewhere).

    Being able to say that I'm a committee member of GAGB would certainly help when talking to outside bodies (what better reason for having a national association other than to give a little more credibility to people negotiating with outside bodies?&#33 and you can be certain that it's not something I'd keep quiet!

    Until GAGB has an elected committee with a mandate to take it forward and decide who speaks on its members' behalf, I believe it would indeed be hypocritical of me (or anyone else) to use the name of GAGB in order to boost my own credibility with those I'm speaking to.

    I suppose in a way, from my perspective, GAGB begins its life at the end of these elections. It will then, and only then, have a committee which can claim to speak for its members. I would like to be a part of that committee and first said so on the day that GAGB was announced on the GC.com forums. I do realise that at least four of the seven founder members hold strong feelings against G:UK (partly, I'm sure, due to my trigpoint logging system, but partly still unexplained - what exactly have we done to upset you?&#33. But of those four, only T&J stood for election to the committee and I have already expressed in my manifesto my optimism that we can work together constructively.

  3. #3
    TheCat Guest

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    Well It would of been good if Moss had added the last bit of the paragraph to his post, ie: (no point in GAGB having rules unless we can be confident that they're being followed&#33. I am afraid that I feel that this is getting stupid. If you want GC:UK to pack in then tell us why, what are we doing to so upset you? Paul Blitz in his manifesto states:
    I furthermore believe that GAGB should become Geocaching.Com's UK
    representative (but that should not preclude them also chosing to represent
    OTHER international caching web sites as well), in the same way that other
    countries & many states within the USA have geocaching organisations that
    are Geocaching.Com's local representative. I believe, perhaps in the longer
    term, that GAGB should take on the task of approving UK caches for
    Geocaching.Com (and possibly other sites too....) - again, in the same way
    that other local caching associations already do.

    Does that not deserve a comment. That will be a conflict of intrest will it not. I have tried to get on with GAGB but it would seem that it is not to be. I am getting to the stage where I will just call it quits and do something else with my time. But I will not do that as I feel that the services we provide for the caching community are services they want. If this was not the case they would not keep returning to the site. It was me that asked Teasel to stand for election as I have quite enough to do at the moment. I just hope that he will continue to stand though I will understand if he does not wish to. The fact the we are helping to organise a national event in 2004 is not a detraction from GAGB. In fact when the location etc for the event is sorted there will be full and public discussion on a new site that we have set up for the event, that does not even mention GC:UK. This event will be hosted by a council and will be open to everyome.

    What gives GAGB the right to have control over geocaching in the UK. As far as I am aware we have a democracy in this country and not a dictatorship. I am not saying tjhat GAGB is trying to do that but the post by one of the founder members above gives me great cause for concern. GAGB does not speak for all geocachers in the UK and I dont think it ever will. The diferance between GC:UK and GAGB is that we have never claimed to do so. We are not trying to run the sport we just provide services to the community.

    For the sake of geocaching lets get on if we dont then geocaching will be the loser.

  4. #4
    Teasel Guest

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    Can Teasle categorically state that any comment/decision/finding/idea to do with GAGB will not influence his ways on GC:UK or Visa Versa, I THINK NOT.
    Well it would make sense to use, with Mark's permission, the G:UK database on Lunarpages to allow cache approvers (be they GC.com, GAGB or whoever) to check for proximity to SAMs, simply because it already contains the necessary data (and permission to scrape this data from GC.com isn't easy to come by!!&#33. I would, of course, be prepared to host such applications away from G:UK servers if there was no politically acceptable alternative, but this would mean more work (and therefore time lost from other tasks).

    Other than that, I can't really see any overlap between GAGB and G:UK. I run a cache database and a trigpoint logging system; Mark runs a links database, forum, free homepages, photo gallery etc, and also sells merchandise (at close to break-even and certainly less than the site running costs). Why do you see us as significant to GAGB, let alone a threat?

  5. #5

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    At least you were given the option.. I was not.. Conflict of interests.. remember.. I approved caches.. nothing more.. I could not speak for Geocaching.com. You have more association with GC:UK than I ever would have with Geocaching.com.. yet you can still sit there and say you will be totally independant..

    All I ever wanted was to take Geocaching in UK forward.. but seems others have other ideas..

    I will not let this lie..

    You can't be party to two sites.. has to be one or other.. Thats what I was pushed into.. so I decided neither

    Call me a looser.. wimp.. whatever.. least I won't have to put up with the carp yer conna get being on committee..

    And belive me You will .. if elected conform to this member or I w ill want to know why..
    Moss The Boss... Sorta

  6. #6
    TheCat Guest

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    Here is a copy of a post I have just made on the GC.com forums.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Due to a post by Moss Trooper in these forums entitled Vent My Spleen and his posting on GC.com the Children in Need event this year will not be taking place as I am getting fed up of the sniping GC:UK continues to get. Have no fear the CIN Charity will be getting a donation from a non geocaching event I will organize here in Yorkshire. This is not a descision I have taken lightley but I have taken it. I will inform the BBC in the morning that the event is off and will archive the cache now.If you like fox hunting then please try to visit the one being run by Team Tate as this is the last time the telemetrics unit I have will be loaned out.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    I have taken the action in the above post and will not change my mind.

    I am now out of here to get a life. Oh have no fear GC:UK will not be closing down.

  7. #7

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    It makes me very sad knowing all this has started up again. Why oh why can't everyone live and let live?


    Note: I'm not getting at anyone in particular here

  8. #8

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    Originally posted by TheCat@Sep 9 2003, 09:55 PM
    It was me that asked Teasel to stand for election as I have quite enough to do at the moment.
    You asked him to stand!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!

    I was asked by umpteen membes of the geocaching community.. Not the leader of GC:UK..

    I was still told.. Conflict of Interest.. You can't.. how can you be independant..
    Moss The Boss... Sorta

  9. #9
    Chris n Maria Guest

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    ignore this

  10. #10

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    Originally posted by TheCat@Sep 9 2003, 10:21 PM
    Here is a copy of a post I have just made on the GC.com forums.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Due to a post by Moss Trooper in these forums entitled Vent My Spleen and his posting on GC.com the Children in Need event this year will not be taking place as I am getting fed up of the sniping GC:UK continues to get. Have no fear the CIN Charity will be getting a donation from a non geocaching event I will organize here in Yorkshire. This is not a descision I have taken lightley but I have taken it. I will inform the BBC in the morning that the event is off and will archive the cache now.If you like fox hunting then please try to visit the one being run by Team Tate as this is the last time the telemetrics unit I have will be loaned out.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    I have taken the action in the above post and will not change my mind.

    I am now out of here to get a life. Oh have no fear GC:UK will not be closing down.
    Now who is getting childish.. this is about who should be elected to a committee to represent GC in UK.. Those already associated to another site or not..

    I was excluded..
    Moss The Boss... Sorta

  11. #11
    TheCat Guest

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    Quite simple realey I had been asked to stand by quite a few people and was not able to do so due to other commitments.
    Oh by the way I am not the leader of GC:UK.com I just pay all the bills.

    As for independance did you not say that you where approving caches to GAGB Guidelines. At that time GAGB was a group of founder members. What gave you that right you where a GC.com approver.Do you not feel you over stepped the mark. We dont approve caches.

    No Moss it is about the constant slagging off GC:UK.com is getting. I have put alot into this sport as well as many others but it would seem that Teasel and I are the ones that keep getting it in the neck. If it continues I will pull the plug on GC:UK.com amd leave caching for good. I said when I started this sport that I would continue in it till it was no longer fun. Well it is getting to no longer be fun.

    I am not going to carry on this conversation any more as it is getting nowhere.

    Please Please give it a rest and let us agree to disagree before I do something I will live to regret.

  12. #12

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    C n M..

    This is about conflict of interests.. Nothing more..

    I was told I shouldn't be on committee as I was with Geocaching.com as approver.. so I shouldn't stand for committee..

    Then some one in association with GC:UK stands and nothing is said..
    wouldn't you feel a little peeved!!

    Then for Teasle to say in his manifesto he cant see a problem with conflict.. well I ask you..!!
    Moss The Boss... Sorta

  13. #13

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    Originally posted by Moss Trooper@Sep 9 2003, 10:50 PM

    Then for Teasle to say in his manifesto he cant see a problem with conflict.. well I ask you..!!
    Perhaps if I could play Devil's Advocate here for a moment, it seems to me that the Moss Trooper GC:COM v GAGB conflict is a little different from the perceived Teasel G:UK v GAGB conflict..

    Whilst G:UK appears to be nothing more than a repository for useful geocaching stats and utilities, GAGB was set up with the intention of setting out rules and guidelines for geocaching in the UK.. There were those who saw the prospect of having both UK G:COM cache approvers (Moss Trooper and Eckington) standing for committee positions with GAGB as a conflict of interest.. This notion was hardly helped by Moss Tropper's own admission that he was already using GAGB guidelines to approve or disapprove caches submitted to G:COM despite those guidelines being formulated by an unelected and unrepresentative quasi-committee..

    Teasel on the other hand merely provides the programming genius behind the G:UK site.. He is unelected but represents no one.. There are no need for elections in G:UK, they do not formulate policy.. They make no rules, they don't have guidelines.. They merely provide at their own expense a valuable service to the UK geocaching community.. A service that anyone can take or leave..
    Muggle - One Voice - One Vote

  14. #14
    jmn20 Guest

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    I don't understand Moss Trooper here. He says he is suffering from sour grapes; he wanted to stand for election to the GAGB committee, but was told (by whom?) that this would be inappropriate due to his responsibilities to G.com in approving new caches.
    Why do you not vent your anger at the person / people who dissuaded you from standing rather than someone who is doing what you wanted to.

    In relation to Teasel's manifesto :....
    I have approached Peak District National Park rangers about getting
    permission to place a night cache on their land; I am trying to foster a
    more positive relationship between us and the Modern Antiquarians; and I am
    on the organizing committee for a major geocaching event next year (can't
    say more until it's been given the OK by the council&#33. I have also
    contacted English Heritage, who have agreed to send me a database of all
    the Scheduled Ancient Monuments in England

    .... and the GAGB homepage.....
    This Association was established to provide an elected voice for its members in the United Kingdom.
    Its aims are to establish good practice, provide a focal point for public liaison and support the growth and enjoyment of Geocaching in harmony with the law and environment.

    ....and Moss trooper.
    I donít see anything in there to say on behalf of GAGB.. I do note the comment about a NATIONAL event ?????? That does not seem to invole GAGB either.

    1) Are all geocaching events now to be held under the umbrella of GAGB. ie are we not going to allow people to organise their own events without the GAGB 'Big Brother' involvment?

    2) Will cachers only be allowed to approach local land owners, councils, park authorities with the permission and blessing of GAGB?

    If the answer to either of these is yes, then GAGB is going well beyond it's published aims, and IMHO going to create a stiflling and oppressive level of red tape and resentment in the UK caching community. In any case, you will not stop 'unblessed' events and caches and probably make them more common.

    Personally I take my hat off to anyone who is willing to put the time and energy into organising large scale events and approaching authrorities with a view to harbering better relations. Why can't you see you are both on the same side - that of embracing and promoting caching in the UK?

  15. #15

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    Either Iím totally missing something here or Iím going (prematurely, I hope) senile.

    Moss was appointed ĎApproverí by Geocaching.com, the governing body of geocaching world wide. OKÖ I know there are other sites but to all intents and purposes they are insignificant (flame me if you like but they are). Geocaching.com approve our new caches, itís their site we log our finds (or not) on. They are the head honchos.

    The GAGB is local. Its purposeÖ to promote peace and harmony for geocaching and geocachers in the UK. Much as some would like it to be so, it is NOT a subsidiary of Goecaching.com and it has no power to do anything, much less approve caches. Mossís conflict of interest was clearly stated in his earlier post when he told us that he was only going to approve caches to GAGB/HCC guidelines. That was clear and irrevocable.

    Geocacheuk.com is a data base, fer crissakeÖ It holds data, nothing else, and presents it in the best way for us to make use of it. To the best of my knowledge, it has no interest what so ever in approving or administering caches and we sure as hell donít log our finds there. For the life of me, I canít see any conflict of interest in Teasel being part of G:UK and a member of the GAGB committee.

    To my way of thinking, the closer GAGB and G:UK are, the better for all of us here in the UK. They are both working (or will be, I hope) for the good of us all and I, for one, fully support them both.

    John
    John
    Age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

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