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Thread: GSP cache listing considerations.

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  1. #1

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    Default GSP cache listing considerations.

    1. Night tacks
    2. London caches
    3. Political caches
    4. Charity caches
    5. Camping events
    6. Caches without logbooks
    7. Neglected caches
    8. Abandoned caches
    9. Power trails (definition)
    10. Churchyard / graveyard caches
    11. Railway station caches
    12. Historic caches (1st in UK etc)
    13. War memorials
    14. commercial caches
    15. event accessibility generally,
    16. landowner agreement in a time of heightened security

    This is a list of the new things to consider when listing a cache (on Groundspeak) that have been mentioned / discussed or added to in the GC forum since the begining of september.

    Ive ignored a few repeats and probably missed a few at the same time as i did not open every thread.

    I felt that listing them here would enable a none GSP discussion to take place.
    Last edited by markandlynn; 4th November 2008 at 04:20 PM. Reason: abondoned is a good word wonder what it means added SP's to list
    "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning."

  2. #2
    Simply Paul Guest

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    You missed commercial caches, event accessibility generally, and landowner agreement in a time of heightened security.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simply Paul View Post
    You missed commercial caches, event accessibility generally, and landowner agreement in a time of heightened security.
    Aha the man who is desperate for a lifetime ban from GC.

    Covered in 1,2,3 and 4 but focused on the OP. Its a lot for one month, id be surprised if this many new considerations have been added in a year before.

    I suspect that this is what lactodaved and dodgydorum were resisting behind the scenes.
    Last edited by markandlynn; 4th November 2008 at 04:26 PM.
    "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning."

  4. #4
    Simply Paul Guest

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    If I get a lifetime ban for asking questions, having an opinion and the will (bravery?) to express it, then I welcome one. To misquote Groucho Marx, "I wouldn't want to belong to any club that wouldn't have me as a member'

    You're right, that is quite a lot of things to consider when placing a cache. I see on the 'other place' that caches have already not been set due to all too many questions about their theme (cooling towers being demolished) - I don't suppose this has been the only case, but even if it is, it's not a happy trend.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by markandlynn View Post
    I suspect that this is what lactodavid and dodgydorum were resisting behind the scenes.
    Part of it yes. Certainly some of those issues you mention, and Paul's additions, were causing angst when Dave and I decided we'd had enough.

    From a personal POV I am in agreement with most, if not all, of what Dave Gerrie mentions. Not that it will do any good to discuss it here though. We might feel good having vented our collective spleens as it were, but it won't make a jot of difference "over there".

    The current UK review team will still have to continue doing what they're told with a lot less freedom than Dave and I had. Maybe that's why there's so much bickering/argument going on over there these days.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hornet View Post
    Maybe that's why there's so much bickering/argument going on over there these days.
    Really? I haven't seen that

  7. #7

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    Is "recycled caches" covered in "abandoned caches"?

    Actually, I was idly thinking about this whole area last night and I wondered whether they have the same discussions (debates/bickering/angst) in the US. I haven't tried to find out but I suspect that the reviewers there have an easier time as people are more likely to accept any decision without question, even if it appears illogical.

    Is there a "British mentality" that makes it more difficult to impose authoritarian rules and regulations on the public here? I kind of feel that there is but I might be just falling for a stereotype. Obviously, it won't apply across the board, but the generalisation may have an element of truth behind it.

    I have noticed in several cities in the USA, that everyone waits at the side of the road for the "green man" before crossing, even when there's clearly no traffic around. In the UK people just go when it's clear whatever the signal: but when I did that across the pond I was tutted at. A hint of basic cultural differences?

  8. #8

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    You suggest at the end of the post that we should discuss! Brave! So here's my one word (mostly) opinion on the new considerations!

    Quote Originally Posted by markandlynn View Post
    1. Night tacks - Bad. IMHO, no different to any other cache.
    2. London caches - Bad, but can't be helped. (At least Last Delivery was resurrected!)
    3. Political caches - Good - no place for political agenda in caching.
    4. Charity caches - Bad - UK charities are generally not divisive, so no reason to restrict
    5. Camping events - Bad - see my poll thread for my opinion on the new (or stricter) interpretations
    6. Caches without logbooks - Good - although virtuals would be nice to have back, the bottom line shuld be some kind of log book.
    7. Neglected caches - Bad (Obviously)
    8. Abondoned caches - Bad, (also obviously)
    9. Power trails (definition) - I have no problem with them!
    10. Churchyard / graveyard caches - I approve of the new guideline
    11. Railway station caches - Its a shame it became necessary, but how hard is it to place it off rail property? I'm sure all the ones I've done are...
    12. Historic caches (1st in UK etc) - Should be doing everything we can to keep them, but only where the cache history is important/interesting. The location itself doesn't warrant special treatment, as a new cache can always be placed.
    13. War memorials - whats wrong with them I say?!

  9. #9

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    I think you should add ESP and telepathy.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost in Space View Post
    I think you should add ESP and telepathy.
    Lol
    "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning."

  11. #11
    Team Sieni Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by markandlynn View Post
    1. Night tacks
    Night Tacks was a Woodland Trust thing wasn't it? - not GSP per se?

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Sieni View Post
    Night Tacks was a Woodland Trust thing wasn't it? - not GSP per se?
    Yup but it applies to all new UK night caches now.
    "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning."

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by markandlynn View Post
    Yup but it applies to all new UK night caches now.
    are you sure? I thought it only applied to caches on woodland trust land?

    Mod!

  14. #14

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    My post is my personal opinion and as such you do not have my permission to quote me outside of these forums!

    Dave
    Brenin Tegeingl
    Formerly known as Mancunian Pyrocacher on GC

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by markandlynn View Post
    Yup but it applies to all new UK night caches now.
    I had an 18 cache night cache circuit in mind at the beginning of the year. It got canned because of permissions issues, however I'd set some stages with many reflectors. These were a mixture of fire tacks, other retroreflectors, high visibility tape stuck onto pins and high visibility stickers made from the same tape. I was looking for the most cost-effective way of setting the caches, since fire tacks are very expensive items. Though the caches could not stand, retrieving them in the dark to test the quality of the markers and their placement intervals was revealing: there was no significant difference in the performance of any of them and all could be spaced pretty widely.

    In placing the markers my order of preference was:
    1 - stickers on metal fixtures (eg gates and gate posts)
    2 - stickers onto timber fixtures (eg fence posts)
    2 - pins into fixures (eg fence posts)
    3 - pins into dead wood (eg died off branch stumps)
    4 - pins into thick bark
    5 - pins into live wood

    Frankly, I don't think I placed more than one or two pins out of 100+ into live wood as it was just not necessary to accomplish the objective and my mind set all along had been the caching ethic of "zero impact".

    The notion that this should no longer be considered responsible adult behaviour by default and therefore require explicit consent is bizarre. For example, Lilly Hill Park in Bracknell has undergone restoration and conservation work - now all the trees have tin-plated number tags nailed into them. Surely the conservationists would not have done this if there were to be any impact on the trees?

    However, with a little creative thinking, I realise that there is actually an alternative that had not occurred to me previously - glue! A rapidly setting non-solvent glue such as Evo-Grip could render a reflective patch more tamper-resistant than pins and have no impact on live wood with even the thinnest of bark coverings. In terms of tree-friendliness and cost-per-marker, it might be the best option.

  16. #16
    keehotee Guest

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    I've used 3M reflective tape (unstitched from poundland reflective cycling vests) - cut into arrows, eyes, whatever - and stuck on with no more nails tape in the past - very successfully.
    I've also used the same 3M tape with spongy double sided tape less successfully...

    I've got a new night cache planned that uses neither for the markers ..... but can't tell you what it will be using in case it gives anybody a heads-up !!
    Oh - and it won't cause any damage to trees.

  17. #17

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    OK here is my take on this.

    Its groundspeaks site and forums and its obvious they want more control over all of it. Id guess as they are a small team dealing with 200+ countries and crown dependancies etc they want to homogenize / concatenate / bring together all the different takes to make the game the same all over the world. (this is understandable)

    Many multinational companies do this a Big Mac tastes the same everywhere a dell in the Uk is the same as a US dell apart from the power supply there are many more examples.

    Our UK reviewers and mods (the ones that are left that is) seem caught between the devil and the deep blue sea or a rock and a hard place in trying to keep UK cachers happy and GSP happy.

    So is it time to say here you go GSP its your ball you have it, you manage it, you approve the caches and if you fall foul of local prohibitions then you have to sort them out (or pay the GAGB to negotiate locally).

    This would hopefully make the majority of none forum using cacher more aware of just where and how GSP operates and hopefully change things.

    Or a server owner with great php skills will use the opencaching source code and create a UK site.
    "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning."

  18. #18
    Simply Paul Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by markandlynn View Post
    ...Or a server owner with great php skills will use the opencaching source code and create a UK site.
    Funny you should say that... I've been working on something that, while not geocaching, does 'get you out to interesting places' and addresses some of the known problems with caching (landowner permissions, damp boxes, lost trackables, etc). It's still some months away and needs much more work, but I hope to be able to launch it in the spring- all being well. I do need a web-database expert though (Paul aka lordelph, aka Mr GeoGraph hasn't come back to me yet- he might not be interested in taking on another project; especially one that needs lots of time and some investment) so if anyone with those skills is reading... The server and bandwidth side of things is already covered, at least for a UK-sized game; if it goes global -and there's no reason why it couldn't- then something bigger would be needed. Premium Membership, anyone?

  19. #19
    keehotee Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by markandlynn View Post
    OK here is my take on this.


    Many multinational companies do this a Big Mac tastes the same everywhere a dell in the Uk is the same as a US dell apart from the power supply there are many more examples.
    Aaaaaahhh - but the UK seems to be one of the few countries worldwide where MacD's don't also offer a unique regional alternative to the Big Mac.......

    Oh - and until relatively recently I don't believe it was possible to buy a Dell 'puter with a 64 bit chip anywhere outside the mainland USA......

    Not to mention the fact that KFried is available with mash and gravy in Australia and NZ

    If organisations as large as those are prepared to make regional concessions, why can't GSP???
    There are probably far more examples of "global" organisations making concessions to local customers than there are against.
    Last edited by keehotee; 6th November 2008 at 03:53 PM. Reason: needed to add more ...'s, and my line spacing was all off ;)

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by markandlynn View Post
    Yup but it applies to all new UK night caches now.
    I don't understand, (nothing new there), this statement.

    I have searched far and wide and, to date, found no distinct "night cache" category.
    There is a voluntary, (that word chosen carefully), symbol "recommended for caching at night", but I can find no official recognition/description of a "night cache".

    So what applies to what?

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