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Thread: A Fairy Tale?

  1. #1

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    Wink A Fairy Tale?

    See my post on page 2
    Last edited by Pharisee; 6th November 2008 at 08:49 AM.
    John
    Age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pharisee View Post
    So the children of Forumnia wait in the hope that one day a Hero will come forth and he will run and jump and talk loudly enough to break the spell and banish the darkness from the land. Freeze Peach will be set free and her threads returned to her and the land of Forumnia will once again become the happy and joyous place it once was. A place where the children can play their sometimes boisterous games and expend their youthful energy safe in the knowledge that Freeze Peach is looking after them and none will get hurt.[/SIZE][/FONT]
    As one who has played and fallen foul in the land of Freeze Peach so mentioned, I fear the underworld will have to Freeze too before Forumnia will return to her magical ways.

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    Excellent!

  4. #4
    Alan White Guest

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    Amusing

    Sorry, but I just have to deal with the common misinterpretation of the 1st Amendment. The key words are Congress shall make no law...

    The background to the drafting of the Constitution and Bill of Rights is that the States, who were in the process of federalisation, were keen to ensure that the federal government had only such powers as the states were prepared to give them. Thus the words mean that Congress can't, inter alia, abridge freedom of speech. There's nothing - at least not in the US Consititution - to prevent the states, NGOs or commercial entities from doing so.

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    Does anyone have a Smilie for a yawn?

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    Ending the post in smileys doesn't disguise the fact that this comes across as a personal attack against some good people, who I'm happy to call friends, who really don't deserve such treatment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaz666 View Post
    Ending the post in smileys doesn't disguise the fact that this comes across as a personal attack against some good people, who I'm happy to call friends, who really don't deserve such treatment.
    Oh give me a break! This is supposed to be a forum about geocaching.
    A very amusing post was written and then someone points out the technical inaccuracies in the post - nothing to do with geocaching.

    If I post a discussion paper on Inverse Fourier transforms or Laplace's equation I might expect technical criticism, but a humorous post??

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    Could you do one on Least Square Average please, I'd like to understand that a bit better......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaz666 View Post
    Ending the post in smileys doesn't disguise the fact that this comes across as a personal attack against some good people, who I'm happy to call friends, who really don't deserve such treatment.
    Sorry but I don't agree that the original was a personal attack. It was a criticism certainly but done in a humorous way. There's a world of difference between criticism and a personal attack. On a discussion forum it is quite in order to criticise someone you disagree with, over the years I've certainly taken my fair share. However if you accept a public position you must be prepared to take the rough with the smooth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by esim View Post
    Could you do one on Least Square Average please, I'd like to understand that a bit better......
    Would you like the 10 minute version or the full 20 minutes?

  11. #11

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    Here's a layman's summary:

    Imagine you're trying to fit a line through a set of points and you want it to be as
    close as possible to the points. One way to do this is to minimize
    the sum of the distances of the points from the line. But this might
    lead to the line passing through some points while other points are
    very far away from the line. So instead what least squares fitting
    does is tries to get every point as equally close to the line as it
    can get it. The way to do this is to make sure that no point is far
    from the average distance away from the line. In statistical terms
    this means you are trying to minimize the standard deviation of the
    distances of the points from the line.

    We use squares of numbers to figure out the standard deviation.
    If a point is really far away from the line that really increases the
    standard deviation since the distance away from the line is squared
    which makes its value much bigger. On the other hand if the distance
    between the point and the line is small, then squaring it makes it
    even smaller. This creates a fit that gives each point close to an average
    distance away from the line.

    (Cubic and quartic regressions rely on cubic and quartic equations
    which model the data points. The trick is to pick three or four
    points at random and then create a cubic or quartic polynomial to fit
    them and hope it fits the rest of the data points. Logistic regression
    use logarithmic expressions to fit a set of data points in much the
    same way as cubic and quartic regressions do.)

    Hope this helps,

    Neil

  12. #12
    active cacher Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost in Space View Post

    If I post a discussion paper on Inverse Fourier transforms or Laplace's equation I might expect technical criticism, but a humorous post??
    I'm soooo tempted to ask what Laplace's equation is all about, but I don't want to appear dim.....
    And I ended my reply with a smiley because this is a light hearted forum!

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    Quote Originally Posted by active cacher View Post
    I'm soooo tempted to ask what Laplace's equation is all about, but I don't want to appear dim.....
    And I ended my reply with a smiley because this is a light hearted forum!
    If you really want to know, PM me. I am sure most of the Geocachers on here would not be interested.

    Neil

  14. #14
    dino Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hornet View Post
    Sorry but I don't agree that the original was a personal attack. It was a criticism certainly but done in a humorous way. There's a world of difference between criticism and a personal attack. On a discussion forum it is quite in order to criticise someone you disagree with, over the years I've certainly taken my fair share. However if you accept a public position you must be prepared to take the rough with the smooth.
    I got to say something here! That post is spiteful and nasty, written in such a way as to appear humourous but definitely not for Lucilla who it is blatantly aimed at! It's nothing more than a thinly veiled personal attack and I'm sad and frankly disappointed that you are even trying to condone it! The fact that it is posted here and not on the Groundspeak forum speaks volumes as to the intent

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    Quote Originally Posted by dino View Post
    I got to say something here! That post is spiteful and nasty, written in such a way as to appear humourous but definitely not for Lucilla who it is blatantly aimed at! It's nothing more than a thinly veiled personal attack and I'm sad and frankly disappointed that you are even trying to condone it! The fact that it is posted here and not on the Groundspeak forum speaks volumes as to the intent
    err, you might want to apologise to the hornet there - if you follow the thread, you'll find that he was commenting on Jaz's comment on Lost In Space's comment that followed Alan's comment about the consititution.

    I did wonder whether the original post was somewhat harsh towards mandarin, but hornet wasn't talking about that.

    edit to say, maybe he was - I'm lost - ignore me, nothing to see, move on!
    Last edited by Dave Gerrie; 5th November 2008 at 10:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Gerrie View Post
    err, you might want to apologise to the hornet there - if you follow the thread, you'll find that he was commenting on Jaz's comment on Lost In Space's comment that followed Alan's comment about the consititution.

    I did wonder whether the original post was somewhat harsh towards mandarin, but hornet wasn't talking about that.
    Just to clarify that my comment was aimed at the OP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaz666 View Post
    Just to clarify that my comment was aimed at the OP.
    oh I'm getting too confused! In which case LiS misunderstood as well!

    I'm somewhat hoping (naively maybe) that Pharisee wasn't referring to our own Mandarin as being dark hearted, as I do feel that is uncalled for. I will confess that it took me a while to work out who Princess Freeze Peach was (yeah, I'm thick!) so maybe I've misunderstood as well!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Gerrie View Post
    ...In which case LiS misunderstood as well!
    True.

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    re-reading the original post, I'm in agreement with Dino here. It appears to be directed personally at Lucilla, and I find it more than a little disturbing that GAGB is happy to see personal attacks on anyone, regardless of their position. I along with many others have made more use of the GAGB forums recently in the belief that they are a much more friendly place to hang out. Maybe I was mistaken.

    If I am wrong in my interpretation, then I humbly apologise now.

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    Re Pharisee's post at the top. I consider it is a personal attack on mandarin (and me as a reviewer Graculus) and I find it very offensive as was his post in the main forum. I reported that post to the groundspeak global moderator who was looking after thread as a personal attack (no idea what happened about that ). I would hope his post above is given careful consideration by the mods here.

    The way the thread in the main geocaching forum degenerated down to nothing more than insults just sickened me. People who post this sort of offensive rubbish and those big, brave hangers on who delight in agreeing with it have done Geocaching in the UK absolutely no good whatsever.

    I hope you are all very proud of yourselves. Pharisee, you asked for a Hero to come along and free your fantasy land? I sincerely hope that one day your wish will come true.

    Posted as Chris not Graculus

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    I've intentionally kept my oar out of what's happening "over there", but I feel Pharisee's post here has over stepped the bounds of taste and decency. Being critical is one thing, but outright insults are quite another.
    I would hope that the OP can see how his remarks can effect those he has belittled.

    GSP and I don't sing from the same hymn sheet, but I know where to draw the line.
    I'm just going outside, and may be some time!

    www.jacobitecaching.co.uk

  22. #22
    beefy4605 Guest

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    Mandarin has resigned and Deceangi has stepped back from moderating .
    I hope some of the backbiters are prepared to step up and do the job ,it's a great chance for you to put your ideas into practice and get things going your way.
    To mandarin and Deceaingi thanks - to the people who forced them to come to this decision - thanks for nothing.

  23. #23
    uktim Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by dino View Post
    I got to say something here! That post is spiteful and nasty, written in such a way as to appear humourous but definitely not for Lucilla who it is blatantly aimed at! It's nothing more than a thinly veiled personal attack and I'm sad and frankly disappointed that you are even trying to condone it! The fact that it is posted here and not on the Groundspeak forum speaks volumes as to the intent
    Spot on.

    It's hard to see the OP as anything other than a nasty vindicative piece of writing that required some pre-meditation and a degree of effort to compose.

    Dressing it up as humour does nothing to justify or excuse the content

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    It would seem that my attempt at light-hearted humour has not been received in the way that I’d intended. I had always believed that laughter was a cure for a lot of ills and that the renowned British ability to laugh at ones self would prevail. That appears not to be the case. My tale was not intended to be malicious; merely a little mocking in the same way that pantomime mocks the main characters of other tales.
    I apologise to Mandarin for portraying her as the villain but there has to be a baddie in any story. While I can appreciate how some saw it in that light, it was not conceived or indeed intended as a personal attack. With hindsight, it was probably not a good thing to do in the current ‘climate’. If it is possible, I’ll remove my original post. If it isn’t, then maybe one of the administrators can remove it for me.
    John
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    Quote Originally Posted by dino View Post
    I got to say something here! That post is spiteful and nasty, written in such a way as to appear humourous but definitely not for Lucilla who it is blatantly aimed at! It's nothing more than a thinly veiled personal attack and I'm sad and frankly disappointed that you are even trying to condone it! The fact that it is posted here and not on the Groundspeak forum speaks volumes as to the intent
    I would like to clarify that my comments were NOT aimed at mandarin (who I think has made a damned good try at being forum mod), nor were they aimed at the UK review team who I know are continuing to work under difficult conditions. They were aimed at those from outside the UK community who continue to, in my opinion, use their position to drive UK caching in a way I think is wrong.

    If Lucilla, Chris or Dave see my attempt at levity as a personal attack on them then I apologise unreservedly. That was not my intention.

    As offence has been caused, albeit unknowingly, I feel it inappropriate for me to be considered for the GAGB committee. I would ask Bill to remove my name from the list please.

  26. #26
    Alan White Guest

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    I thought the villain of the story was intended to be Groundspeak. Otherwise what relevance would the 1st Amendment have?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan White View Post
    I thought the villain of the story was intended to be Groundspeak. Otherwise what relevance would the 1st Amendment have?
    In the current climate where almost every post is being interpreted by someone as a personal attack... either on themselves or someone else, that went straight over their heads.
    John
    Age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

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    I never saw it as a personal attack, but a personal opinion, dressed up in humorous, tongue-in-cheek fashion. I also saw the villain of the piece to be the Groundspeak policies rather than anyone in particular.

    I was hoping that this forum would be home for some more robust posting where there's space to give personal opinions an airing, even if occasionally that will lead to a little embarrassment. By the nature of internet forums, people are bound to be misunderstood or say things that they later regret. But if we're heading towards the treading-on-eggshells approach then we may as well stick with the Groundspeak forum, which is surely going to bland-out completely soon.

    If The Hornet's post was seen as a personal attack then I don't think I can post to any geocaching forums any more as I can't see how I can avoid making inadvertent personal attacks myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hornet View Post
    As offence has been caused, albeit unknowingly, I feel it inappropriate for me to be considered for the GAGB committee. I would ask Bill to remove my name from the list please.
    Come on! That's not necessary. Any reasonable person can see that your comments are aimed at GSP's unwillingness to listen to it's customers. You're a potential asset to the GAGB, please reconsider?
    I'm just going outside, and may be some time!

    www.jacobitecaching.co.uk

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    Quote Originally Posted by jacobite View Post
    Come on! That's not necessary. Any reasonable person can see that your comments are aimed at GSP's unwillingness to listen to it's customers. You're a potential asset to the GAGB, please reconsider?
    I'll second that, everyone needs to sit down and have a cup of tea/coffee (whatever your tipple). :coffee:

    Things often get heated (here and elsewhere) and things are said that can and often will be interptreted to have meanings other than those originally intended. I thought the original post crossed the line but the OP has removed the post due to its interpretation by others on here.

    Lets all settle down and start talking about tupperware again
    "I Cache, therefore I am"

  31. #31
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    My post (#14) was in relation to what I saw as support by The Hornet in post #9 for the original post by Pharisee (#1). I took it that Jaz666 in #6 which was quoted in #9 was also in respose to #1.

    I'm glad to see that the original post has been removed and that John has confirmed that there was no malice intended. However, I can't see how anyone mentioned could think otherwise after the last few days of constant criticism and complaint (much of it merely nit
    -picking and without much substance) especially when John was one of those who complained quite vociferously on the GS Forum in what was also taken to be verging on a personal attack.

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    I'd like to thank Pharisee for his apology - which I am happy to accept. It was his original post above and in the other forum that really annoyed me personally - after the seemingly endless reviewer bashing going on it was the final straw! Hornet thank you for apologising but having followed your posts I read that your concerns were more with Groundspeak and were not aimed personally at the reviewers so it was not you I was having a go at.

    Others were included in my comment though, one particular dig about us not being volunteers is really beginning to annoy me. I quote from a thread in the main UK forum; I do wish we wouldn't use the word "volunteer". The reviewers and moderators aren't volunteers, they're Groundspeak appointees. We are volunteers, asked by Groundspeak (not appointed) to do a job for nothing, in our own time to provide fellow cachers with an excellent service (we hope ). These sort of comments are very hurtful and whilst I'm pretty thick skinned and immune to most things said to me, this last few days has made me re-think my role very carefully.

    Posting as Chris not Graculus

  33. #33
    Alan White Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Blorenge View Post
    We are volunteers, asked by Groundspeak
    Sorry, that's an oxymoron. A volunteer volunteers, he isn't asked. Though I've obviously never experienced it first hand, the Groundspeak reviewer selection process has been described publicly often enough for me to understand that it goes like this:
    - a vacancy is determined
    - the existing local reviewers discuss who they think may be suitable
    - the existing local reviewers propose that person to the rest of the reviewers
    - if the reviewers think s/he is OK then the nominee is approached
    - the nominee may or may not accept the job

    At no time has the nominee volunteered to do the job. In fact, not only is one not permitted to volunteer to be a reviewer but a nominee doesn't even know that he's under consideration until actually asked.

    Compare this approach with the recruitment process for a normal job.
    - a vacancy is determined
    - the HR dept determine the criteria for whom they think may be suitable
    - the job is publicised
    - a candidate puts himself forward i.e. he volunteers
    - if the HR dept think s/he is OK then the candidate is offered the job
    - the candidate may or may not accept the job

    So the process for a normal job is volunteering. Groundspeak's is an appointment because the selection has been made before the appointee is approached.

    I am aware that some dictionaries present a meaning of "volunteer" which says that it's someone who works without payment. I'm not going to argue semantics (OK, perhaps I am) but I doubt that's a definition that you'd receive from the man in the street.

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan White View Post
    Sorry, that's an oxymoron. A volunteer volunteers, he isn't asked. .
    .
    .
    .
    I am aware that some dictionaries present a meaning of "volunteer" which says that it's someone who works without payment. I'm not going to argue semantics (OK, perhaps I am) but I doubt that's a definition that you'd receive from the man in the street.
    You do seem to have a real bee in your bonnet about this. I'd be interested if you could find any dictionary that DOESNT include the above definition of volunteer.

    Someone does something for no personal gain, of their own volition, then they're a volunteer.

  35. #35
    uktim Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan White View Post
    Sorry, that's an oxymoron. A volunteer volunteers, he isn't asked. Though I've obviously never experienced it first hand, the Groundspeak reviewer selection process has been described publicly often enough for me to understand that it goes like this:
    - a vacancy is determined
    - the existing local reviewers discuss who they think may be suitable
    - the existing local reviewers propose that person to the rest of the reviewers
    - if the reviewers think s/he is OK then the nominee is approached
    - the nominee may or may not accept the job

    At no time has the nominee volunteered to do the job. In fact, not only is one not permitted to volunteer to be a reviewer but a nominee doesn't even know that he's under consideration until actually asked.

    Compare this approach with the recruitment process for a normal job.
    - a vacancy is determined
    - the HR dept determine the criteria for whom they think may be suitable
    - the job is publicised
    - a candidate puts himself forward i.e. he volunteers
    - if the HR dept think s/he is OK then the candidate is offered the job
    - the candidate may or may not accept the job

    So the process for a normal job is volunteering. Groundspeak's is an appointment because the selection has been made before the appointee is approached.

    I am aware that some dictionaries present a meaning of "volunteer" which says that it's someone who works without payment. I'm not going to argue semantics (OK, perhaps I am) but I doubt that's a definition that you'd receive from the man in the street.
    As a man in the street I know an awful lot of people in volunteer roles who took on their roles after being approached and asked if they'd consider the job. They are still volunteers in my eyes because they choose to give their time FoC for the benefit of others.

    Now would you care tro give us your thoughts on the definition of a pedant

  36. #36
    Simply Paul Guest

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    I've got to agree with the others Alan; the people who work for Groundspeak (and Age Concern, and Guide Dogs for the Blind, et al) without payment are volunteers. They didn't necessarily volunteer for the role, but that doesn't stop them being volunteers. Personally I do find it very hard to knock people who are helping out for free; were our lackies like some US lackies, and paid to do a job, you can be sure I'd have been more strident in my (mild) criticism of them. I have reserved the majority of my 'forum angst' for the puppet-masters across the ocean. I keep hearing it's their game, we should do as we're told. I say it's our game, and they should so as they're told. It's not like the satellites or GPSrs have 'Groundspeak' stamped on the side, is it?

  37. #37

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    Everyone is right:-

    volunteer

    noun 1 a person who freely offers to do something.
    2 a person who works for an organization without being paid.

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    well, what a sorry saga. I can't really add much to what has been said by me and others, except to say that I also feel that the Hornet has a lot to offer the GAGB committee, and add my voice to the calls for him to remain as a candidate.

    And hopefully, this can all be put to rest and the forums can return to the slightly more normal TPTB-criticism, who I think everyone believes are fair game!

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Gerrie View Post
    well, what a sorry saga. I can't really add much to what has been said by me and others, except to say that I also feel that the Hornet has a lot to offer the GAGB committee, and add my voice to the calls for him to remain as a candidate.

    And hopefully, this can all be put to rest and the forums can return to the slightly more normal TPTB-criticism, who I think everyone believes are fair game!
    Seconded. The Hornet remains a fine choice for the committee and I'm looking forward to everything calming down again. Yes, really. When it's quiet, it means nothing weird is happening. Or at least, nothing weird happening is being publicised

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    I was uneasy about the original post, and I considered editing it, but we do have a policy of light moderation, and I hoped it would be seen as a comment on the machinations of GSP generally and not as an attack on individuals.

    I can only say that I'm sorry that some did take offence at it, and I'm pleased to see that John has deleted it.

    ---
    Bill, Chairman GAGB
    ​​Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light. (Dylan Thomas)​


  41. #41

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    I thank Pharisee for removing his Fairy Story OP and I accept his apology.

    Thanks also to The Hornet for his two emails received this morning.

    Regarding my resignation as Mod over there, I'm not going to say any more about it. 24 hours on I re-read what I had posted in that "Final Quacks" Topic. It accurately reflects what I felt, and still feel, about the whole matter. I do not appreciate the speculation and re-interpretation of my words, which is taking place. Please read exactly what I wrote in those lines, not some imagined hidden agenda lurking between them.

    Now let's move on.


    Lucilla

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    I'm sorry but i will not discus anything about John or Peters post as they are now water under the bridge.

    But I would like to thank both for standing up and making public apologies. As that is a action which showed them both to be special people.

    Thank you Gentlemen :cheers:

    I'd also like to thank John for the removal of the original post, go and have a few mate.

    And Peter for his emails, now where's the smilie with the glass of Red Wine, ah well have a few as well mate

    Dave (ps where's the smilie with the sparkling water )
    My post is my personal opinion and as such you do not have my permission to quote me outside of these forums!

    Dave
    Brenin Tegeingl
    Formerly known as Mancunian Pyrocacher on GC

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hornet View Post
    I feel it inappropriate for me to be considered for the GAGB committee. I would ask Bill to remove my name from the list please.
    As a result of subsequent requests for me to reconsider I have spent time during the past 24 hours doing just that, reconsidering. I have given a lot of thought to my position and have decided that I would like my withdrawal to stand.

    This has nothing to do with GAGB itself, rather it is a reflection of my feelings towards geocaching in general. I have explained my reasons to Bill (as chairman) in a personal e-mail.

    To those asking me to stand again I thank you for your support. Good luck to all still involved.

    Peter

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    Peter, I've removed your name from the list of those who've accepted their nominations. I'm really sorry that you've decided not to stand but I do understand your reasons. Email on its way.
    Last edited by Bill D (wwh); 7th November 2008 at 11:05 AM. Reason: Typo
    ​​Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light. (Dylan Thomas)​


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    I liked the original story, although I would change the cast.

    The good princess would have to be replaced by a duck, looking after her ducklings, and the villain would obviously be a frog (no need to mention any big green birds or stick wielding lackeys).

    Still not PC, or factually correct, but just a fictional story.


    I thought Mandarin was an excellent and fair moderator, and appears to have been highly thought of by Groundspeak as well as by the other reviewers and forum users.

    Good luck, and I hope you continue to look for small plastic containers.

    Perhaps you now have time to stand on the GAGB committee . If so, I would like to nominate Mrs Blorenge, but understand if you want to take time out to chill.

    Ivan
    Paved Roads: Another fine example of unnecessary Government spending!

  46. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hornet View Post
    As a result of subsequent requests for me to reconsider I have spent time during the past 24 hours doing just that, reconsidering. I have given a lot of thought to my position and have decided that I would like my withdrawal to stand.

    This has nothing to do with GAGB itself, rather it is a reflection of my feelings towards geocaching in general. I have explained my reasons to Bill (as chairman) in a personal e-mail.

    To those asking me to stand again I thank you for your support. Good luck to all still involved.

    Peter
    Read the candidate list before reading this...............................same face
    I'm just going outside, and may be some time!

    www.jacobitecaching.co.uk

  47. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by ivanidea View Post

    Perhaps you now have time to stand on the GAGB committee . If so, I would like to nominate Mrs Blorenge, but understand if you want to take time out to chill.

    Ivan
    Thanks for your kind words and the nomination - but I would politely refuse.

    Why? The last 3 months have made me rather wary of appearing in any official capacity representing Geocaching. Also, I fear that having acted as a mod 'over there' then some folks will inevitably have seen me as being too closely aligned with Groundspeak. Actually my stance is simply that I like to see GSP and GAGB interact well together. As I said to somebody recently, at the moment it's almost as if we have 3 sides chafing - "Them" (GSP)", "Us lot, dept A (GSP UK forum users)" and "Us lot, dept B (GAGB forum users). All three groups are important and need to interact positively together.
    A while back I put a post in here using the pub analogy: Well, now I've tried 3 months of being the Landlady in one of the branches of that World-wide chain of Pubs, I've discovered that it's not that much fun being a Landlady and I enjoy the other side of the bar better. But I shall continue using both that Pub and this local independent hostelry - I want both to thrive - That gives people the choice of venues and I believe that's a good thing.

    :cheers:

  48. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs Blorenge View Post
    A while back I put a post in here using the pub analogy: Well, now I've tried 3 months of being the Landlady in one of the branches of that World-wide chain of Pubs, I've discovered that it's not that much fun being a Landlady and I enjoy the other side of the bar better. But I shall continue using both that Pub and this local independent hostelry - I want both to thrive - That gives people the choice of venues and I believe that's a good thing.
    Love the pub analogy. It's a pity that mods aren't allowed pub opening hours...........
    As a friend once told me: They would never like to work behind the bar of a pub because of the requirement to smile and be nice to customers all the time.

    Neil

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    You did a fine job as far as I can tell.

    But perhaps you were expecting a nice cosy pub out in the country where people chatted pleasantly over a good meal but occasionally had to be reminded of their manners. Instead, you found yourself overseeing a city centre wine bar, with lots of louts upsetting your regulars and chairs being thrown through the window every Friday night. In addition to which, the area manager would insist that you did everything his way...

  50. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Humphrey View Post
    You did a fine job as far as I can tell.

    But perhaps you were expecting a nice cosy pub out in the country where people chatted pleasantly over a good meal but occasionally had to be reminded of their manners. Instead, you found yourself overseeing a city centre wine bar, with lots of louts upsetting your regulars and chairs being thrown through the window every Friday night. In addition to which, the area manager would insist that you did everything his way...
    Reminds me of a pub I used to drink in, in Edinburgh. I never did quite work out why Scottish & Newcastle ended up leveling it to the ground
    I'm just going outside, and may be some time!

    www.jacobitecaching.co.uk

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