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  1. #1

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    Default Questions/Questions/Questions

    .
    Last edited by Us 4 and Jess; 6th November 2008 at 01:17 AM.

  2. #2
    Simply Paul Guest

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    As the questions I answered have vanished...
    Last edited by Simply Paul; 6th November 2008 at 01:24 AM. Reason: Deletion

  3. #3

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    It would be interesting to know what this thread's all about, but perhaps we never shall...
    ​​Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light. (Dylan Thomas)​


  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D (wwh) View Post
    It would be interesting to know what this thread's all about, but perhaps we never shall...
    I'm also a bit puzzled by this thread?
    I'm just going outside, and may be some time!

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  5. #5
    Simply Paul Guest

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    I still have a record of my answers if it's really doing anyone's head in..?

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simply Paul View Post
    I still have a record of my answers if it's really doing anyone's head in..?
    Well, it is rather, actually...
    ​​Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light. (Dylan Thomas)​


  7. #7

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    New forum game?
    Here's the answer, what's the question?
    I have a Geocaching problem...
    Work gets in the way!

    * Cache Walker -Caching by byway, not highway! CacheWalker.co.uk
    Walking and Caching in Warwickshire, Worcestershire, Gloucestershire areas

  8. #8
    Simply Paul Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill D (wwh) View Post
    Well, it is rather, actually...
    In that case: Mandy asked three questions, which as she's assures me she didn't deliberately mean to delete, I'm happy to reproduce. Along with them, in bold below, she gave her own views, which I didn't make a copy of. This might stop some of my responses making perfect sense, but see how you do-

    Should any future moderators/reviewers be anonymous ? And I mean really anonymous
    I can't see that working. It becomes a guessing game and people love those. Whoever has these roles needs the respect of their peers, and that's hard to have from behind a mask. Plus it'd get out sooner or later anyway- why not be up front about it?

    Does familiarity breed contempt?
    For me, the change was when Lacto and Ecky left; the answers got more vague, when they came at all, and the global mods started taking a more active (and less gentle) interest. I don't think familiarity breeds anything- good forum moderation is an art, not a science, and not everyone had the fine eye for detail Lacto and Ecky had. That's not to say no one else has it though.

    Should we have no UK mods and just let those over the pond moderate the forums?
    My experience of global mods has been disappointing. But then Jeremy doesn't set a great example, in my opinion. Why politely suggest when you can warn? Why warn when you can ban? I think someone who understands British humour, lingo and spelling should be able to do the job better than a non Brit, plus the US is in a time zone that doesn't help- You'd get 'stuff' going on in the middle of the night, which might be ok for creatures of darkness like you and I, but generally... unhelpful, like the old satellite interviews Wogan used to do, with a 3 second delay. And when people are on in the evenings, it's day time in the US, when they have better things to be doing than minding us.
    Last edited by Simply Paul; 6th November 2008 at 09:27 PM.

  9. #9

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    Global mods taking care of things in the UK forum?
    No thanks.

    Take a look at how they handled cachers using Jeremys avi.

    No "Please don't"
    or "Jeremy won't like that!"

    It was just go and tell -"Sir, sir, look what they're doing..."
    on one of his rare times away from the office.

    Lets have someone that can at least understand the British sense of humour!
    I have a Geocaching problem...
    Work gets in the way!

    * Cache Walker -Caching by byway, not highway! CacheWalker.co.uk
    Walking and Caching in Warwickshire, Worcestershire, Gloucestershire areas

  10. #10

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    Thanks for putting me out of my misery, Paul...!

    No, I agree that forum mods being truly anonymous wouldn't work. It'd certainly become a guessing game, they wouldn't get the respect they deserve - not that they always do anyway, but that's another matter - and the truth would out in the end.

    I think the UK gc.com forum should definitely have UK mods, and it would be nice to see them left to get on with it with no interference from above. Obviously the forum belongs to GSP and they can do what they want with it, but is a little bit of freedom in there really going to damage them? Given that the majority of their paying customers don't read any forums anyway, I hardly think so.
    ​​Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light. (Dylan Thomas)​


  11. #11

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    I'm all for the TPTB to be hands off and let the UK Mods do their jobs, however when the brown stuff does hit the fan it would appear that the UK Mods do not have any support from Groundspeak.

    If the global mods showed more support then I am sure that Deci and MrsB wouldn't have resigned.

    No point showing a united front after the fact.

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    Should any future moderators/reviewers be anonymous ? And I mean really anonymous

    This would clearly be a non-starter, but given this weeks entertainment, who would want to stick their name on it.

    Does familiarity breed contempt?

    Sure it does, but in relation to moderating the GSP forum this doesn't even register, GSP has to go a long way down this list of issues before addressing this, and even then I wouldn't perceive this as a major concern.

    Should we have no UK mods and just let those over the pond moderate the forums?

    Well, that's what's happening now! And I don't see GSP rushing to find a new UK mod/s any time soon. Of course this won't be a good thing for the forum, but given the current climate it would be the easiest thing for GSP to do.

    Is it just me, or can anyone else see Miss Jenn's apology to Mandarin as a really positive thing? With a bit more effort like this, there's not much further to go before a constructive dialogue could be entered in to.
    What I would like to see is, one senior GSP lackey being allowed to address the collective concerns of the UK community, and for those concerns to be dealt with, without the need for what happened on the GSP forum of late.

    I totally understand the frustrations of those in the community who feel that they are not being listened to, but we're simply going to go backward when we allow threads to degenerate into nothing more than a shouting match. We need to discuss our concerns among ourselves, reach a consensus, and allow our representation to discuss these issues with GSP. What other viable alternative do we have?
    I'm just going outside, and may be some time!

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  13. #13

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    Jacobite,

    The cynic in me says that Miss Jenn has only appeared because Jeremy had asked her to appear. Where was she when all of this kicked off?

    Sure a couple of the global mods were in there. Only then they were in there because MrsB and Deci decided not to moderate a thread that was criticising them.

    As I said hands off approach in the UK forum, but still monitor the situation so they can step in to support the UK mods.

    I think the way forward here is for GSP to set up a UK based division that tailors to the culture and the way we do things here.

    This I feel would go a long way to appeasing a lot of people.

  14. #14
    uktim Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Book Of Shadows View Post
    Jacobite,

    The cynic in me says that Miss Jenn has only appeared because Jeremy had asked her to appear. Where was she when all of this kicked off?

    Sure a couple of the global mods were in there. Only then they were in there because MrsB and Deci decided not to moderate a thread that was criticising them.

    As I said hands off approach in the UK forum, but still monitor the situation so they can step in to support the UK mods.

    I think the way forward here is for GSP to set up a UK based division that tailors to the culture and the way we do things here.

    This I feel would go a long way to appeasing a lot of people.
    I think that if we take into account the views of the whole UK caching community there is very little problem and no real need for such a solution.

    Why should GSP alter things for a small but vocal minority who seem hell-bent on finding fault in all things?

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Book Of Shadows View Post
    Jacobite,

    The cynic in me says that Miss Jenn has only appeared because Jeremy had asked her to appear. Where was she when all of this kicked off?

    Sure a couple of the global mods were in there. Only then they were in there because MrsB and Deci decided not to moderate a thread that was criticising them.

    As I said hands off approach in the UK forum, but still monitor the situation so they can step in to support the UK mods.

    I think the way forward here is for GSP to set up a UK based division that tailors to the culture and the way we do things here.

    This I feel would go a long way to appeasing a lot of people.
    Believe me, I'm just as frustrated as you at the way GSP has handled this.
    But we're doing ourselves no favours by shouting the odds on one thread, then moving onto the next thread and doing the same....and so on.
    The net result is, two UK mods gone and global mods having to fill the gap, let's see how far we can push them! They'll be dishing out bans like smarties.

    Isn't it time that GSP were approached without them feeling overwhelmed?
    The first question I'd be asking them is: Who can we talk to within GSP, that will listen and respond to our concerns?
    Last edited by jacobite; 7th November 2008 at 04:00 PM.
    I'm just going outside, and may be some time!

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  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by jacobite View Post
    Who can we talk to within GSP, that will listen and respond to our concerns?
    More to the point who is "we"?

    I would suggest Peter or David................

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by jacobite View Post
    Believe me, I'm just as frustrated as you at the way GSP has handled this.
    But we're doing ourselves no favours by shouting the odds on one thread, then moving onto the next thread and doing the same....and so on.
    The net result is, two UK mods gone and global mods having to fill the gap, let's see how far we can push them! They'll be dishing out bans like smarties.

    Isn't it time that GSP were approached without them feeling overwhelmed?
    The first question I'd be asking them is: Who can we talk to within GSP, that will listen and respond to our concerns?
    To your last question, we've already asked the question, but no one at GSP seems to want to answer our concerns.

    Frustration is born from the lack of answers from GSP.

    I'm not shouting the odds personally, I'm saying what I see and think.

    I feel I can do that without resorting to childish insults.

    There would be no talk of breakaways etc., if GSP communicated with folks about why they are doing things the way they are.

    They only seem to respond when something goes wrong, instead of being proactive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost in Space View Post
    I would suggest Peter or David................
    Knowledge and experience would be sensible approach IMO.
    I'm just going outside, and may be some time!

    www.jacobitecaching.co.uk

  19. #19
    Simply Paul Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by uktim View Post
    Why should GSP alter things for a small but vocal minority who seem hell-bent on finding fault in all things?
    I can only think of one post I've seen of yours which wasn't finding fault in something
    I don't think I've seen people making demands beyond 'we'd like Groundspeak's decisions to make some sort of sense' - doesn't seem unreasonable to me, but perhaps you can see the difference between a monument to 69 dead South Africans and 69 dead from a village in WWI. And are just keeping the information to yourself, as Groundspeak are.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Book Of Shadows View Post
    To your last question, we've already asked the question, but no one at GSP seems to want to answer our concerns.

    Frustration is born from the lack of answers from GSP.

    I'm not shouting the odds personally, I'm saying what I see and think.

    I feel I can do that without resorting to childish insults.

    There would be no talk of breakaways etc., if GSP communicated with folks about why they are doing things the way they are.

    They only seem to respond when something goes wrong, instead of being proactive.
    I think a few of us have shared the same experiences that you have highlighted here. Myself, I'm just trying to find an approach that would work.
    I'm just going outside, and may be some time!

    www.jacobitecaching.co.uk

  21. #21

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    Can I just say something here?

    Since handing in my resignation, I've had some excellent 'de-briefing-type' communication with GSP. I am hopeful that something might come of it. If it does, then I would very much hope that it would be seen in a positive way and maybe it might be a first step towards healing some of the anger and frustration which is still so prevalent on the UK GSP Forum.

    I think MissJenn's recent posts, and public apology addressed to me, have shown that GSP admitted there have been some errors. I see them as a first, small step towards progressing forward. It would be good if folks could find it in their hearts to acknowledge this.

    (By the way - did anyone notice that she no longer has "carries a big stick" under her avatar?)

    Last edited by Mrs Blorenge; 7th November 2008 at 04:57 PM. Reason: I thought I'd just cross my fingers :-)

  22. #22
    Simply Paul Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs Blorenge View Post
    (By the way - did anyone notice that she no longer has "carries a big stick" under her avatar?)
    I did. She's replaced it with political comment, but at least the suggestions it was for putting down dissent should dry up. The stick still in her avatar never looked like a club to me.
    Last edited by Simply Paul; 7th November 2008 at 05:06 PM.

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs Blorenge View Post
    (By the way - did anyone notice that she no longer has "carries a big stick" under her avatar?)

    LOL...Nope, that one went right over my head
    I'm just going outside, and may be some time!

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  24. #24

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    Okay I'll look beyond and just see it as an apology without being too cynical about it.

    However words come easy and actions harder.

    I have seen this so many times on other forums/sites they say change will happen, nothing tends to happen, or if something does it will be for a while and things will then slip back, old habits die hard.

    I look forward to seeing some progress for everyone's sake.

  25. #25
    Alan White Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs Blorenge View Post
    (By the way - did anyone notice that she no longer has "carries a big stick" under her avatar?)
    Yes, I did. Please could someone remind me where it says "Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda."?

    Oh yes, it's in Groundspeak's guidelines .

  26. #26
    Alan White Guest

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    A very interesting set of questions. Thanks to SP for resurrecting them.

    Should any future moderators/reviewers be anonymous ? And I mean really anonymous
    Does familiarity breed contempt?
    I see these as the same thing really so I'll answer them together.

    Yes, moderators/reviewers should be anonymous because then there can be a disconnection between the individual and the interpretation and application of the rules. The way things are at the moment any comment on or challenge to the rules is seen as an attack on the individual because that individual is personally known to many cachers. If the identity of the individual isn't known then comments can be made and received objectively.

    Respect has been mentioned. Aside from the true cliche that respect is earned I don't see that it's necessary for Groundspeak's moderators and reviewers to receive respect from GB cachers. Sure, they may be respected and they may earn respect by their actions and decisions, but respect shouldn't be a necessary criterion for the role. The job is to uphold Groundspeak's view of how geocaching should work, not to be respected representatives of GB cachers. They could never be that because GB cachers (aside from the few existing moderators/reviewers) have no opportunity to select them.

    The GAGB chairman and committee are much better representatives of GB cachers, even for those like me who, for the moment, choose not to be part of the electorate.

    Should we have no UK mods and just let those over the pond moderate the forums?
    Effectively that's what happens anyway. As I said above, the job is to uphold Groundspeak's policies so, as has been shown more than once, a moderator/reviewer who isn't able - for whatever reason - to do that won't stay in the job.

  27. #27

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    I don't see that having US-based mods is wrong. After all, the forum is a US one, and the title of "our" section is merely "Talk Geocaching in the United Kingdom." - it's not a UK forum. The forum rules and guidelines are set by the US. And in any case, the principles of forum moderation are pretty much global, AFAIK.

    It's nice to have someone moderating who can comment from a UK perspective, and perhaps the American mods will get caught out occasionally by the use of Cockney rhyming slang. But it's probably more important to have someone who knows how to be firm without causing an international caching incident: and I get the feeling that a little "aloofness" actually helps.

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan White
    <snip>As I said above, the job is to uphold Groundspeak's policies* so, as has been shown more than once, a moderator/reviewer who isn't able - for whatever reason - to do that won't stay in the job.<snip>
    *To make the above statement absolutely clear, I think the following words could have been inserted here - "for moderation across all their forums"
    The moderator is not expected to comment on, "to uphold", any other of Groundspeak's policies within the context of the forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Humphrey View Post
    I don't see that having US-based mods is wrong. After all, the forum is a US one, and the title of "our" section is merely "Talk Geocaching in the United Kingdom." - it's not a UK forum. The forum rules and guidelines are set by the US. And in any case, the principles of forum moderation are pretty much global, AFAIK.

    It's nice to have someone moderating who can comment from a UK perspective, and perhaps the American mods will get caught out occasionally by the use of Cockney rhyming slang. But it's probably more important to have someone who knows how to be firm without causing an international caching incident: and I get the feeling that a little "aloofness" actually helps.
    I will say that, after my experiences of the last 3 months, I agree with HH's comments above.
    Last edited by Mrs Blorenge; 9th November 2008 at 09:18 AM. Reason: randomly straying apostrophe

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Humphrey View Post
    It's nice to have someone moderating who can comment from a UK perspective, and perhaps the American mods will get caught out occasionally by the use of Cockney rhyming slang.
    I've got more that one of those past the UK mods.
    Muggle - One Voice - One Vote

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muggle View Post
    I've got more that one of those past the UK mods.
    I'd like to think, though perhaps naively, that in here at least, we can usually spot a Hampton or a mackerel at a reasonable distance, but in the GSP forums at the moment I would imagine they'd probably go unnoticed...

    But we don't seem to get Hamptons or mackerels in here - I wonder why that is...?
    ​​Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light. (Dylan Thomas)​


  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muggle View Post
    I've got more that one of those past the UK mods.
    Good heavens! You didn't did you? I'm (again)

    Of course it's always possible they may have noticed it and said between themselves

    "Did you notice that?"

    "Hmmm, yeah. Do we need to bother?"

    "Nah. Let's just ignore it. We'll bother about it if anyone picks up on it and makes an issue about it."

    <Goes back to mug of tea>

  32. #32
    Simply Paul Guest

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    ('Hampton Wick' and 'Mackerel and Sprat', for those not cock-ah-knee, like wot I is, Mary Poppins.)

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs Blorenge View Post

    "Nah. Let's just ignore it. We'll bother about it if anyone picks up on it and makes an issue about it."
    That's moderation at its best. :socool:
    Muggle - One Voice - One Vote

  34. #34

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    I nearly peed myself last week when I was put on hold by Verizon (phone company). They were runnig little infomercial things instead of playing muzak. They "interviewed" a customer about their Fios fibre optic internet service, "Over to Jack Hoffman for his thoughts on Fios" - Priceless.
    Muggle - One Voice - One Vote

  35. #35

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    Sorry, I don't understand...? Could you explain that to me?










    (Actually I had to read that 3 times... )
    Last edited by Mrs Blorenge; 9th November 2008 at 06:10 PM.

  36. #36

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    Should any future moderators/reviewers be anonymous ? And I mean really anonymous

    Nope but as the UK forum is the third most popular of ALL the forums it will take more than two mods unless we ban holidays and days off.

    Does familiarity breed contempt?

    Possibly but id say the sheer size and quantity of posts and replies cause many issues and there are a few posters who like to stir things (im talking a clique here and not the obvious ones)

    Should we have no UK mods and just let those over the pond moderate the forums?

    Id say that as its the third most popular forum in GSP's space that any help would be welcome. However ganging up on people and interfering in the UK mods threads and decisions should be a no no.

    You may of noticed i dont post over there any more. This is mainly down to some of the cliques of people who inhabit the UK forum, this not just my observation but that of a few others who have privately PM'd / emailed me.

    Note ive just checked the fourth most used forum ie used less than the UK one has 5 moderators two of whom are GSP employees.
    Last edited by markandlynn; 18th November 2008 at 11:52 AM. Reason: added moderator info
    "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning."

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