Thanks Thanks:  41
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4
Results 151 to 161 of 161

Thread: Why the secrecy at GAGB?

  1. #151

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Church Warsop, Notts
    Posts
    518

    Default

    Sorry, I haven't seen the attacks and abuse. A couple of posts on this thread overstepped the mark slightly, but apologies were forthcoming.

    If you have any examples of abuse and attacks from myself, please give examples. Otherwise it looks like an attempt to get people to shut up and go away. Which is not very nice.

  2. #152

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Longformacus
    Posts
    316

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Humphrey View Post
    Sorry, I haven't seen the attacks and abuse. A couple of posts on this thread overstepped the mark slightly, but apologies were forthcoming.

    If you have any examples of abuse and attacks from myself, please give examples. Otherwise it looks like an attempt to get people to shut up and go away. Which is not very nice.
    I never mentioned names, but from the sound of your post, you clearly think my post is aimed at you........why's that?

    And I'd be grateful if you wouldn't presume that I'm attempting anything that I haven't said.
    I'm just going outside, and may be some time!

    www.jacobitecaching.co.uk

  3. #153

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Church Warsop, Notts
    Posts
    518

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jacobite View Post
    I never mentioned names, but from the sound of your post, you clearly think my post is aimed at you........why's that?
    Not JUST me, but I've been posting what I hope is constructive criticism, along with ideas for the future of what I hope will become a highly-respected geocachers organisation. Others appear to have been doing likewise. Unfortunately, some on here regard anything but praise as being moaning and back-biting.

    I was watching James May and Oz Clarke in Ireland (on TV, obviously)earlier.

    Bickering all the time. Arguing. Never able to agree. Insults (the gentle variety: mostly ). Best of friends. Much learnt from very different views of the world. Many pints drunk together along the way. Actually, it's scripted like this as it illustrates the subject matter much better than dry commentary.

    I'd hope we're the same on here, and I haven't seen evidence to the contrary. You have though (I'm not sure what the other forums are that contain the hate), and I'm confused if you don't mean me; no-one else has launched a sustained attack here; perhaps I've done this inadvertently?

    Quote Originally Posted by jacobite View Post
    And I'd be grateful if you wouldn't presume that I'm attempting anything that I haven't said.
    I didn't presume anything, I just let you know what it looks like. Perhaps you didn't mean it, but your wording is easily interpreted like that.

  4. #154

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Humphrey View Post
    Bickering all the time. Arguing. Never able to agree. Insults (the gentle variety: mostly ). Best of friends. Much learnt from very different views of the world. Many pints drunk together along the way [...]
    I've been around long enough, and got into enough scrapes myself, to know that posting in forums just isn't like banter in the pub. It's far too easy to be unintentionally nasty, and you can't tell when you're doing it because you don't get the instant feedback which warns you you're in danger of going too far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Humphrey View Post
    I'd hope we're the same on here, and I haven't seen evidence to the contrary. You have though (I'm not sure what the other forums are that contain the hate), and I'm confused if you don't mean me; no-one else has launched a sustained attack here; perhaps I've done this inadvertently?
    I've been watching this from the outside, with no particular preconceptions, and I have to say that there has been a sustained attack on the GAGB. The whole thrust of many recent posts - not yours - has been to claim that it isn't representative, is dictating to non-members, hasn't achieved anything, etc. Crucially, the posts I'm thinking of aren't saying "so it should do X instead", and they're certainly not saying "I could help to do X instead"; as far as I can tell, they just want the GAGB to give up on anything like its current objectives and go away.

    It's a perfectly valid viewpoint, and I thought about it a lot when it was first raised, but I decided I quite fundamentally disagreed. To be honest, having reached that conclusion, hearing the same people raise it again and again and again has got tedious. For the committee who are actually giving their time to try to make the GAGB work, though, I imagine it's gone beyond tedious and grown wearing or, indeed, hurtful.

    More than that, being constructive is about more than pointing out what you think is wrong, or even suggesting what you think could be better. It's about choosing your timing, distinguishing the things which are REALLY important to you from the incidentals, and making clear you recognize how we got here in the first place. Just piling in with page after page of criticism is almost never constructive, no matter how individually helpful the comments might be.

    I hesitate to personalize this but, on your comment "I haven't seen evidence to the contrary", I'm genuinely surprised that you don't see the pattern I do - because I think you, personally, have been very careful with how you present your own remarks. I remember being equally surprised by a similar comment you made over on the Groundspeak forums, at the time of the reviewer wars. Have you considered that you might have an unusually robust attitude in this area?

  5. #155

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Church Warsop, Notts
    Posts
    518

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Morton View Post
    I hesitate to personalize this but, on your comment "I haven't seen evidence to the contrary", I'm genuinely surprised that you don't see the pattern I do - because I think you, personally, have been very careful with how you present your own remarks. I remember being equally surprised by a similar comment you made over on the Groundspeak forums, at the time of the reviewer wars. Have you considered that you might have an unusually robust attitude in this area?
    That's a very well-written post, showing that it is possible to disagree without being even slightly likely to be seen as argumentative. Thanks.

    No, I still don't see a "sustained attack". As far as I'm concerned, it's valid for people to say what they don't like, even if they don't offer an alternative. Sometimes people can see what's wrong but a practical solution is not so immediately obvious; and although no-one likes having deficiencies pointed out, it's useful feedback to know that there's a perceived problem (at least in some quarters). And after all, if someone says (for instance) "the GAGB doesn't do anything useful", it's giving an opportunity for someone to advertise what it does do.

    To answer the point that criticism is OK until it gets repeated too much, I look at it like this.
    What you might say in a heated pub debate comes out in a few minutes and if you overdo it, a quick apology and the hasty words are forgotten. On a forum, the same debate may take several days to complete, and hastily-worded posts remain for all to contemplate for weeks afterwards. Sometimes posts are misunderstood, ignored or answered unsatisfactorily, and the criticism gets repeated. Thus, what looks like "sustained" to some (or long-winded to others) is often only really a brief exchange of views, spread out over several postings which took a week to come out. Maybe later the thread will get on to more positive ground, but it's often broken up before that stage.

    Yes, I probably do have a more robust attitude. But as you've observed, forum posting often comes across as more aggressive and abrupt than normal face-to-face chat, so all I'm doing is mentally toning it down by taking into account forum language usage and the limitations of the inexpert use of the written word.

    My belief is that the GAGB is still a young organisation and is bound to engender disagreement about its purposes and direction. Those that care about the game will often have strong opinions but won't always word them diplomatically enough, even though they don't intend to cause offence.

  6. #156

    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Posts
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Humphrey View Post
    snip Sometimes posts are misunderstood, ignored or answered unsatisfactorily, and the criticism gets repeated.

    Not always the case at all, some people just don't like it when other people will not change their opinion to suit theirs. It then becomes an attack dress it up how you will.

  7. #157

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Church Warsop, Notts
    Posts
    518

    Default

    With great respect, I'm not trying to "dress up" anything. Why should I? That's just how I see it. If I saw it as an attack then I'd say so.

    I was merely making the point that SOMETIMES (not always), critical posts are met by (what is taken as) an unsatisfactory reply and the criticism gets repeated. It may well be that neither party will budge and things get a little heated in places. But often I find that I've read the whole thing in ten minutes, from start to finish. At worst it got slightly impolite, and the "aggressor" (as you see it) was not intending to damage the GAGB but had an honest opinion.

    To me, that's ten minutes of slightly heated debate. To you, it's a sustained attack. We have no option but to differ on our interpretation, as it's a matter of opinion, so I suggest we leave it at that.

  8. #158

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Longformacus
    Posts
    316

    Default

    HH, There's clearly things you aren't aware of. When I mentioned a hate campaign in my previous post, I meant exactly that. The insults on this forum are (IMO) bad, but nothing compared to the vile abuse I've suffered through other channels.
    You may see what's been happening lately as nothing more than robust debate, but I know otherwise. You're right, I think I'll leave it at that.
    I'm just going outside, and may be some time!

    www.jacobitecaching.co.uk

  9. #159

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Church Warsop, Notts
    Posts
    518

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jacobite View Post
    HH, There's clearly things you aren't aware of. When I mentioned a hate campaign in my previous post, I meant exactly that.
    Well, if I haven't seen what's really been going on, and no-one has told me, then you can't blame me for not being aware of it!

    It all sounds highly regrettable, and I hope that we can continue on here with debate (up to and including robust, but not hateful). But I agree that enough has been said on this now.

  10. #160
    Icenians Guest

    Default

    I just want to make it clear, in case others get the wrong idea, I haven't communicated with anyone on this thread in any other way than via this thread.

    Well, except over a pint with a dalek!

    Kev

  11. #161
    Desk Pilot Guest

    Wink Hmmm.....

    Well, as a new member I find these posts a little confusing. I have not found anyone else on the web who has set up a similar organisation, except Geocaching.com, which is American.. So, if he GAGB is NOT the prime UK organisation, please point me towards the one that is. This is supposed to be a hobby, not a party political broadcast. If the guys at GAGB are fulfilling a role, good for them. If only 56 people voted, then that is 100% of the UK Geocaching population. The rest are either only self-interested or do not want to be organised and therefore have no voice. Those who do not participate cannot complain that a group of dedicated people do not represent their views. Well, that's a shot across the bows from an opinionated newbie!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •