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Thread: OPs.. Now I done it..

  1. #1

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    Default OPs.. Now I done it..

    Posted on GC.com.. Oooooooooh.. can I say that !!!!


    And I wont appologise for this post.

    OK..

    So someone has removed a thread that was in a way a bit naughty.. Bad Boy Hornet.. tsk tsk..

    But what was it about..

    Someone.. ME Trying to raise funds to help those who have fought and been maimed in the name of FREEDOM OF SPEACH.

    Why use Geocaching.com forum.. simple .. I am known.. good or bad and it is a quick simple way to inform a lot of folks of a little effort on my part to help those who have given.

    I hope that those on the other side of the pond and are so quick to condemn never have to live with having close family in a war zone God forbid come home maimed, and find that someone bends the rules in their support.

    Enough said..

    Please note that I will never come into your forum again.. please feel free to delete my account.

    Moss Trooper..

    AKA Ian Paterson

    PS.. this is in no way an indictment to the UK forum moderators or reviewers for who I have the most admiration.. poor ******s

    PPS I think Jeremy should start to look at how things are going..

    PPPS T*rracacheing an Navicache could have an upsurge in UK

    BYE BYE AND THANKS FOR ALL THE FISH!!



    Welllllll they peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed me off
    Moss The Boss... Sorta

  2. #2

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    Default

    The point was that the original post didn't break the guidelines and didn't mention your fundraising effort.

    OK, we know that it was a sneaky way of advertising a particular thread on here and thus circumventing the guidelines. But that was attempted without mentioning anything that could cause offence, or directly (or indirectly) linking to anything "naughty". It didn't even link to, or mention, the relevant GAGB forum thread, merely the forum, and only mentioned your geocaching name as if to point out that you post here and not "there". It would have required some detective work and assumptions to figure out the reason for the posting. Some of us here knew, but the Groundspeak Forum users (at which it was aimed) would have been unaware.

    This all hinges on the exact words used. It would have been a different matter had it been worded something like "I draw your attention to a worthwhile thread by Moss Trooper over on the GAGB forum". But it didn't. So, no guidelines broken, and I can only take the thread removal to be some sort of personal vendetta and abuse of forum privileges.

    When all is said and done, was there any offence caused? Yes. Who by? The Groundspeak mods. By anyone else? No.

  3. #3

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    HH has identified precisely what I was trying to do. I thought for quite some time before I came up with a form of words which I felt would be acceptable over there. Obviously I was wrong. My intention was to try and help Ian without causing GSP any concerns as I felt that there had been enough trouble over there.

    To judge by mtn-man's tirade I am seen as an arch trouble maker over there. I should have realised that I was being watched very closely after the threats I received from GSP a little while back. I will reiterate that my posting, the first for quite some time, was designed NOT to be inflammatory.

    One final thought, during my time as forum moderator it was considered "bad form" for anyone to make a, opinionated comment in a thread and then close it, thereby denying any chance of response. It seems that has gone out of the window now.

  4. #4

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    I know that people won't want to be particularly sympathetic to Greg (mtn-man) and Miss Jenn, but I really like to see fair play. So I have to admit that The Hornet's post did break the guidelines.

    The guidelines are worded such that Greg had painted himself into a corner by reading the GAGB forum.

    Once he was aware that someone (most likely The Hornet) was going to find a way of mentioning the Moss Trooper charity thread, he was going to have to study any post that points in the direction of this forum very carefully. And once he spotted the attempt, it doesn't matter that he might be the only person that realised the purpose of the post. He had said that he was going to implement the guidelines rigidly, and this is what he did.

    It's the
    Therefore, threads or posts perceived to have been made with the intent of promoting any of the above agendas will not be permitted.
    section that causes the trouble. It means that you don't actually have to mention anything at all to do with the agenda in question. It's just that it's "perceived" to have the "intent". Had he avoided the GAGB forum, he would have been able to allow the post to stand on its own face value. Because it wasn't obvious that it had any intent, apart from pointing to another geocaching forum.

    Had it been a few weeks ago, I guess he'd have been a bit more reasonable and merely closed the thread with a "I know what's behind this thread, here's why it breaks the guidelines, don't do it again, sorry I'm closing it" type of post.

    But patience has clearly worn too thin, which is unfortunate, and he's now wearing an iron glove rather than a velvet one. Which is also unfortunate and ultimately unhelpful.

  5. #5

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    Maybe you're right and I broke the guidelines. In which case GSP were within their rights to delete the thread. I did wrong and I apologise for causing unnecessary trouble (I'm beginning to sound like a banker ).

    I tried to stay "onside" but obviously failed.

    I'll stick here from now on where any criticism is delivered in a friendly way and with, dare I say it, typically British restraint.

  6. #6

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    Unfortunately Greg has singled out the hornet while allowing a direct advertisement to stay.

    Hi all

    I'm sure there are some mountaineers amongst the caching community besides myself.

    Well, I have orgainsed a mountaineering lecture to come to Oswestry in Shropshire.

    The bloke is Ted Atkins, an accomplished mountaineer, inventor of the Topout Oxygen System (the most widely used oxygen system on Everest), an ex RAF engineer, an author and a pedigree public speaker.

    The lecture comes about because of the schools headteacher setting us, the schools pupil leadership group a challenge of turning 500 into 2000 by the end of the year. This is just one of the events we are holding.

    "THE LAST BREATH ON EVEREST, THE PAIN AND THE PLEASURE" by TED ATKINS

    Date - Thursday 12th March 2009
    Time - 7pm
    Venue - The Marches School and Tech College, Oswestry, Shropshire
    Tickets - 10, 8 Concessions, Refreshments included

    For more information or tickets just contact me on jamestomkins@hotmail.co.uk

    Regards

    James from GW?
    Undoubtedly that will be closed as soon as GSP read this.

    And yes locking threads is bad form,
    "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning."

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by markandlynn View Post
    Unfortunately Greg has singled out the hornet while allowing a direct advertisement to stay.



    Undoubtedly that will be closed as soon as GSP read this.

    And yes locking threads is bad form,
    Yes, I wondered about that one. I have no problem with it myself, but it did seem to me to breach someone's guidelines. But if that's ok, which evidently it is, then why there's a problem with a very discrete pointer in the direction of a post which is trying to raise funds for an admirable charity is beyond me.

    Bill, wearing no hat... h34r:
    ​​Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light. (Dylan Thomas)​


  8. #8
    Simply Paul Guest

    Default

    I see the Everest thread has been closed, but not 'magically' vanished away to the land of fairies. It seemed a bit much that The Hornet's thread was wiped; it was hardly OTT, just a tad naughty. Looks like I'm no longer GS Enemy Number 1.

  9. #9

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    Question

    But strangely the entire post has not been deleted so it is still there advertising the event.


    Whoops Paul's reply got posted in between typing and hitting the button but mine means the same thing .

  10. #10

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    The posts on Hornet's topic that commented specifically on the GAGB forum have been moved onto the pinned topic "GAGB News and Information".

  11. #11

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    But the post 'Everest Lecture in Shropshire' remains as very cheap and blatant advertising, it's got nothing to do with geocaching but mountaineering and has simply been closed and left for all to see.
    Whats good for one should be good for another so it should be moved away from the main forum or is it a special subject ?
    Last edited by DrDick&Vick; 11th February 2009 at 10:14 PM.

  12. #12

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    I suspect that we may get the answer that as The Hornet was previously a moderator/reviewer he should have known better, where James is less experienced and young. I think the Uk moderators used this is as a rule of thumb as well.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose39uk View Post
    I suspect that we may get the answer that as The Hornet was previously a moderator/reviewer he should have known better, where James is less experienced and young. I think the Uk moderators used this is as a rule of thumb as well.
    Previous experience has nothing to do with it, if moderators wish to avoid accusations of being partial, or even getting personal. Either a rule is a rule, or it is not. As Dr Vick said, the mountaineering lecture advertisement is in clear breach of commercial content. I personally don't have a problem with the advert, but the moderation on GSP looks like its lacking objectivity at the moment. It definitately needs a much lighter, more mature touch IMO.

  14. #14

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    I did not say it was right, just that is the answer i suspect we will get.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose39uk View Post
    I suspect that we may get the answer that as The Hornet was previously a moderator/reviewer he should have known better, where James is less experienced and young. I think the Uk moderators used this is as a rule of thumb as well.
    I should have known better?

    If you could see my original post (sorry I didn't keep a copy) you would see that I tried to get my message across in a way which complied with the guidelines. The current forum mods disagreed and all trace of it has now gone. Simple. Much of the subsequent discussion is hyperbole and I am now seen as a pariah by TPTB for my crimes, as are other former volunteers. While this is a shame it's something I can deal with. After all it doesn't stop me, or anyone else, enjoying hunting for plastic.

    As for the Everest post, I metaphorically raised my eyebrows when I saw it but at the same time I was pleased that TPTB allowed it to stand. I saw it as an instance of refreshing flexibility and the subsequent light editing was IMHO an example of good moderation by mtn-man.

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