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Thread: Proposed GAGB Guidelines

  1. #1
    paul.blitz Guest

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    I have now finished editing the proposed GAGB Guidelines (along with some "author's notes") which the committee have had a chance to comment on & help edit.

    The guidelines are amazingly like the Draft HCC Guidelines, which are listed in this site.... but you will note that ALL the guidelines use the word "should".... which is only right, as they are NOT rules, but guidelines.

    You'll find the Proposed Guidelines HERE... the author's notes are at the bottom.

    As explained in the guidelines, they have been written for several purposes:

    - as a set of suggested guidelines for presentation to landowners
    - as a starting point for those landowners who wish to add their own “local” guidelines
    - as a “best practice” for those placing / seeking caches

    As with the proposed constitution, we would like your feedback over the next week, and then we'll run a poll for 7 days from next Friday to vote on whether you want to accept the guidelines: a simple majority of those voting will be needed to accept the guidelines.... although we hope EVERYONE will vote in favour!

    If you have any comments, please make them as constructive as possible.


    Paul Blitz
    on behalf of the GAGB Committee

  2. #2
    Icenians Guest

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    Sorry this has nothing to do with this topic but I don't see any other way to do this. (I get told I don't havew rights).

    As GAGB don't represent Navicache I'd like like to give up my membership of the gagb, no gripe with gagb I just doon't play the game anymore, can someone at committee level remove my login.

    thanks

    Kev (Icenians)

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
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    Pretty good. It is a pleasing development that the elected committee obviously see geocachers in the UK as being responsible adults.

    The only change I would suggest is that guidleine two is changed from:

    Only items that would be deemed safe and acceptable for an unaccompanied child to find should be placed in a cache.

    to:
    2) Only items that would be deemed safe and acceptable should be placed in a cache. Caches should be placed in a way that they will not be accidentally found by non-geocachers.

    As has been pointed out before lots of "acceptable" items would be dangerous to unaccompanied children. ie. sharp pointed pencils.
    Muggle - One Voice - One Vote

  4. #4
    paul.blitz Guest

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    Originally posted by Icenians@Jan 9 2004, 11:11 PM
    As GAGB don't represent Navicache I'd like like to give up my membership of the gagb, no gripe with gagb I just doon't play the game anymore, can someone at committee level remove my login.
    GAGB doesn't represent Navicache... nor does it represent Geocaching.com.

    I believe that we represent people in the UK who go out geocaching, no matter WHICH listing site they choose to use. But, because GC.com is FAR larger than Navicache in terms of users, logs etc, then GC.com tends to get "more coverage".

    If you wish to leave the GAGB, then no problems, I'll get your account removed.


    Paul

  5. #5
    paul.blitz Guest

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    Originally posted by Muggle@Jan 10 2004, 01:14 AM

    The only change I would suggest is that guidleine two is changed from:

    Only items that would be deemed safe and acceptable for an unaccompanied child to find should be placed in a cache.

    to:
    2) Only items that would be deemed safe and acceptable should be placed in a cache. Caches should be placed in a way that they will not be accidentally found by non-geocachers.
    That bit you added ("Caches should be placed in a way that they will not be accidentally found by non-geocachers") is pretty common sense... but so are most of the guidelines! I think it would actually make a lot of sense as a completely separate guideline.


    As for the first bit, you added....
    As has been pointed out before lots of "acceptable" items would be dangerous to unaccompanied children. ie. sharp pointed pencils
    The problem with using the cut down phrase "Only items that would be deemed safe and acceptable should be placed in a cache" is that there is no guidance on what *is* actually safe / acceptable... like who to? By stating "unaccompanied children" I think it becomes a lot clearer.

    How do others feel about the "pointed sticks"?


    Paul

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Jun 2003
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    Originally posted by paul.blitz@Jan 10 2004, 01:53 AM


    The problem with using the cut down phrase "Only items that would be deemed safe and acceptable should be placed in a cache" is that there is no guidance on what *is* actually safe / acceptable... like who to? By stating "unaccompanied children" I think it becomes a lot clearer.

    How do others feel about the "pointed sticks"?


    Paul
    Well as long as no one comes at you brandishing a banana, you should be OK.

    The point I was trying to make was how would an unaccompanied child find a cache in the first place?

    I think what you are trying to get at is "don't put anything in a cache that you wouldn't like YOUR child to find"
    It's just a matter of getting the wording right.
    Muggle - One Voice - One Vote

  7. #7
    Icenians Guest

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    Originally posted by paul.blitz+Jan 10 2004, 01:46 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (paul.blitz @ Jan 10 2004, 01:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Icenians@Jan 9 2004, 11:11 PM
    As GAGB don&#39;t represent Navicache I&#39;d like like to give up my membership of the gagb, no gripe with gagb I just doon&#39;t play the game anymore, can someone at committee level remove my login.
    GAGB doesn&#39;t represent Navicache... nor does it represent Geocaching.com.

    I believe that we represent people in the UK who go out geocaching, no matter WHICH listing site they choose to use. But, because GC.com is FAR larger than Navicache in terms of users, logs etc, then GC.com tends to get "more coverage".

    If you wish to leave the GAGB, then no problems, I&#39;ll get your account removed.


    Paul [/b][/quote]
    Sorry Paul,

    I wasn&#39;t trying to raise any points or start anything. I simply want to cancel my membership with GAGB as it doesn&#39;t represent me

    I can&#39;t seem to send an email via individual accounts privately and the contact page for the site still has details for &#39;secret seven&#39; and none of the current committee.

    Kev

  8. #8
    paul.blitz Guest

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    Originally posted by Icenians@Jan 10 2004, 12:57 PM
    ......I simply want to cancel my membership with GAGB as it doesn&#39;t represent me

    Kev
    Ok, Kev, no problems with that at all... no one / no organisation can ever hope to represent EVERYONE, can it?

    Good luck with caching / whatever other hobbies you are involved with&#33;

    Paul

  9. #9
    NattyBooshka Guest

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    Is the GAGB committee proposing that members MUST follow all of these guidelines when placing a cache? Should members having a cache that contravines these guidelines archive them? Would existing caches be exempt from these guidelines? (as per GC.com)

    Would failure to comply with all of the guidelines above be grounds for expulsion of a member from the association?

    We&#39;re not suggesting that we disagree with any of the above guidelines, but are aware of several if not many caches that do not follow them.

    We see where it said guidelines not rules, but when it come to negociating with landowners it will always help to be seen to be practising what you preach.

    Are we suggesting that caches following the above guidelines state that fact on their listing page? Maybe someone could come up with a funky logo?&#33;

    Well done though... sensible set of guidelines, thanks to the committee for their hardwork
    Cheers
    Emily & Neil

  10. #10
    BugznElm&#39;r Guest

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    "12) When leaving the cache site, after hiding or placing a cache, there should be no visual sign of disturbance."

    None at all ... Native Americans might be able to manage this but 90% of the caches we find we find because of sign.

    I suggest changing to:

    "12) When leaving the cache site, after hiding or placing a cache, there should be minimal visual sign of disturbance left."

    Otherwise, good stuff&#33;

  11. #11
    BugznElm&#39;r Guest

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    "unaccompanied child" - this is vague. What age? 36 months? 5 years? 16 years? 18 years? This is important with respect to toys. Clarification please ...

  12. #12
    BugznElm&#39;r Guest

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    Will the notes form part of the guidelines? If not, what are their purpose? If it is to clarify then they need integrating into the guidelines.

  13. #13
    paul.blitz Guest

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    Originally posted by BugznElm&#39;r@Jan 10 2004, 09:31 PM
    "unaccompanied child" - this is vague. What age? 36 months? 5 years? 16 years? 18 years? This is important with respect to toys. Clarification please ...
    Think of statements like:

    "children should always hold their parent&#39;s hands"
    "children should be accompanied to and from school"
    "children should be seen and not heard" :-)
    "it is not safe for a child to ride a bike in a (busy) road"

    In all cases, it is impossible to state the age for which this applies.. a lot depends on the child. Anyone under 18 could be deemd "a child"... they are certainly legally "a minor". I don&#39;t think most the above would apply to most kids over 11.

    So, at what age would you let a child:
    - walk along the road in town with you WITHOUT holding your hand?
    - cross a road?
    - walk / run on ahead by several hundred metres when out for a country walk?
    - dive into bushes to seek out a cache?
    - open a cache without your direct supervision?

    Again, a lot DOES depend on the individual child.

    So, what are the worst things that could end up in a cache, that we are trying to protect the kids from:
    - a pack of condoms (oh, the embarassment of explaining THAT to a 7 year old&#33
    - a spliff (yes, I HAVE seen one)
    - a sharp, unprotected knife, or similar
    - a gas cigarette lighter, that has been damaged by frost
    - a broken glass bottle
    - alcohol
    - some sort of liquid which, if drunk, might cause illness (even a mouldy bottle of bubbles)


    Then consider that some teenagers DO go caching alone (Michael is 14, Rob is 15: they have both SET a cache alone). I would certainly not want them to find any alcohol - maybe not so worried about the condoms.

    Finally, consider the cache being found by some non-caching teenagers. They are 16, have been drinking some cider in the woods, and find a penknife with a 3 inch blade on, and start to muck around, and hurt someone. Or have that dodgy ciggy ligher burns them as it finally cracks & explodes whilst they are playing with it.


    So, please help me summarise all that (and more) in a simple sentence&#33;

    Yes, the "unaccompanied child *is* vague.... heck, so are many of the guidelines. I don&#39;t know what the answer is. Suggestions ARE very welcome though&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;


    Paul

  14. #14
    paul.blitz Guest

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    Originally posted by BugznElm&#39;r@Jan 10 2004, 09:52 PM
    Will the notes form part of the guidelines? If not, what are their purpose? If it is to clarify then they need integrating into the guidelines.
    The notes will NOT be part of the guidelines... I simply wrote them to help people understand the background behind why the various guidelines are there...

    (BTW: please remember that I wasn&#39;t involved in the writing of the original HCC guidelines)


    Paul

  15. #15

    Join Date
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    Loughton, Essex
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    I have no problem with any of them - all of which are commonsense.

    As stated they are guidelines rather than rules, so I don&#39;t think there&#39;s any point in having every eventuallity covered - exactly the point Paul is making above. It&#39;s not as if anyone needs to find loopholes with guidelines.....................

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