Deleting Logs

[Jacaru]

I have decide to make a stand regarding logs that I receive.

I know that I am not the only one in the community fed up with some of the logs that are coming through more frequently. I now have his header on all my cache pages.

*Please note* As of 1st July, 2011 I will delete logs that are either blank, or only say Found or TFTC

Some people won't like it I know and will go on about caches that are in a series, but I would rather have a c & p'd log that says a little bit more than TFTC or Found. I don't expect essays, but I do expect a little bit more.

[MBFace]

From the experience of a local cache owner who has been reprimanded Groundspeak seem to be very much on the side of the blank loggers ..... but good luck anyway.

[Bear and Ragged]

As Groundspeak have allowed cachers to post 'Blank Logs' I wish you well in your endeavor.

Please let us know how you get on when the first cacher complains about their deleted blank log.

And please let us know how the reviewers respond to you Additional Logging Requirement: *Please note* As of 1st July, 2011 I will delete logs that are either blank, or only say Found or TFTC


Over in the US forums someone has had a log of "Obligatory Comment" logged on their cache.

[Jacaru]

I may just take the stance that The Bolas Heathens have taken should this be a problem for Groundspeak.

[Happy Humphrey]

I suggest the following wording as an explanatory e-mail to a typical culprit.

Dear "Noobicacher".
As a self-appointed Cache Log Comment Quality Assurance Officer, I have deleted your log which claims to have recorded a find by you of my geocache, on the 3rd inst. Do not attempt to reinstate this log without permission, otherwise further action may be taken. Instruction will follow as to the wording I shall consider sufficiently chrysostomatic.

Should you wish to record your find for your records, please be advised that I will not allow you to use the web site geocaching.com for this purpose if you ignore my rules. I am empowered to take action against you under the Groundspeak Inc. Geocaching Guidelines, and I refer you particularly to section 3.1 "Logging of All Physical Geocaches". Although this appears to give me no such powers, and actually seems to forbid this log deletion in such circumstances, the wording is erroneous and should allow me to delete any logs of any type that I deem unsatisfactory.

Only through assiduous and fastidious study of all cache logs will there be an improvement of the standards that I uphold. Therefore, if you continue to elide fulsome literature in your cache logging in this insouciant fashion I may take more serious action against you personally in the future in order to protect the public from this increasingly endemic problem.

I am, sir, your most humble and obedient servant...X.

P.S. Happy caching, and welcome to our friendly community.

[ivanidea]

*Please note* As of 1st July, 2011 I will delete logs that are either blank, or only say Found or TFTC

I thought ALR was disallowed?

I see I can still log it with a '.'

[Palujia]

To be honest, I'm just glad that someone has taken the time to look for and find one of my caches ! I have had lots of good comments to weigh against the TFTCs.I don't want to discourage even the "sent from my mobile phone" loggers as they often get more "into it" and discover the joys of a decent GPS. I check the cache logs every couple of months against GS and can see no real reason to delete the logs if they have signed the log sheet properly. I know some cachers feel strongly about it but there are much more important issues to get wound up about (my opinion only !!!)

[currykev]

If I post a log..."TFTC, but main log at #1". Are you going to delete that and the others I log in a series also?
Why not let any logger log. Delete the found email and just move on.
You're getting hot under the collar for so little, I can only worry.

[Jacaru]

We each play the game and interpret it in our own way. Some things I accept, some I don't.

[Mrs Blorenge]

I've seen very few totally blank logs on our caches so far.

I won't delete them but I was pondering the best way to get my concern across so yesterday I sent this email to one blank logger:

Hi there
I'm dropping you an email because I've just seen that you've put a Found log on our cache [xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] but the log is totally blank.
I don't know if that was just an accidental error in logging, or whether you meant it to be without any comment. If you intended not to write anything that's fair enough, but I just thought I'd let you know that no words appeared!
Most geocache owners appreciate a sentence in a log, even if it's just "Found quickly on a hot day" or whatever, because it gives them feedback on the finder's experience of the cache. If you would like to add anything to your log you can do so by going to the blank log on that cache page and clicking on "Edit log".
Wishing you happy caching...

That says all I want to say and it might be enough to make the blank loggers reconsider their style - or lack of it!

[Graculus]

If you are going to delete legitimate logs that say 'Found' or 'TFTC' just because you don't like them then please don't contact a reviewer when you get into an argument with the finder. We do not get involved in log disputes - we are reviewers! Contact Groundspeak directly contact@geocaching.com.

If you suspect a 'Found it' log is not genuine you should go and check the paper logbook in the cache to verify it. If it is false then delete the log.

The guidelines for logging are very clear, please read them:
http://support.groundspeak.com/index...kb.page&id=204

Blank logs happen with the iPhone app if you select the log type 'Found it' and then submit it without writing anything. It is still a real log even though there is no text.

Chris
Graculus
Volunteer UK Reviewer for geocaching.com
UK Geocaching Information & Resources website www.follow-the-arrow.co.uk
Geocaching.com Knowledge Books

[Happy Humphrey]

We each play the game and interpret it in our own way. Some things I accept, some I don't.

That is of course, your prerogative. But if you use geocaching.com as a listing site you have to take notice of their guidelines. Deleting a log because you don't like the style of logging is not a valid reason.

Fortunately, you're only allowed to delete logs from pages you listed; so at least any disputes will be limited. But the idea of allowing you such powers is so that you can quickly clear up problems in the wording of comments, e.g. giving away spoiler information or using bad language. Abusing the privilege by using it to enforce your preferred style is in my view out of order.

Relax. It's only a few geocaching logs anyway.

[sTeamTraen]

We each play the game and interpret it in our own way. Some things I accept, some I don't.

Actually, we don't have absolute freedom in how we play the game and interpret it. By creating a cache page listing, you agree to accept Groundspeak's guidelines, which regulate how the part of the game which takes place on Geocaching.com, is played. So you don't have any choice in the matter. You have accepted the guidelines, and one of those is that you can't impose conditions on the contents of the online log. (Doubtless there are other cache listing sites where you can impose restrictions to your heart's content.)

Personally, I try to place caches that will give seekers an experience worth writing about. But I'm not going to demand that they write X words about it, because I'm not a schoolteacher setting an essay for homework. I'm also not going to delete the log of a 4-year-old member of a team who has their own account but can only pick out the letters "TFTC" on a keyboard.

Oh, and when you start deleting logs, be prepared for people to ask exactly what would be acceptable. Whereabouts on the continuum of "Thanks", "Thanks a lot", "Thanks for the cache", "Thanks a lot for the cache", and "Thanks a lot for the cache, I hope this log is long enough" are you going to draw the line ? It seems only fair to specify this in advance, even though of course that will immediately tell people how to get past your requirement for spontaneity. Sometimes, when you think about things, they can turn out to be harder than you expected... which is often a hint that you might not want to do them at all.

[Predictable Bob]

Deleting terse or blank logs seems a bit harsh to me ...

My wife's recently started caching in her own right instead of just tagging along with me and her logs are frequently just 'TFTC' - not because she's ignorant but because she's dyslexic and not particularly computer literate so writing a meaningful comment takes her ages. If her logs were deleted she'd get disheartened straight away !

I must admit that my own logs tend to be fairly clinical rather than extolling the beauty of the area or the excellence of the hide - unless there's something really special about it.

Your attitude suggests that you've no real understanding of the massive differences between individuals. Writing a good log entry is the same as producing a good hide - it takes imagination and creativity which are qualities that some people just don't have

[Happy Humphrey]

Even Mrs. Blorenge's polite e-mail comes over as rather snotty (sorry) after the first two sentences. I think if I'd just logged my first few caches I'd be alarmed to receive such an e-mail from a cache owner. But discouraged if it also deleted my log!

Perhaps to make things clear, there should be a "comment" box (where you write log comments the way we do it at the moment), and another "feedback" box (which is directed towards the cache owner and is invisible except to me and the CO).

That way everyone can understand that the public log entry belongs to the cache seeker and is not meant to provide feedback for the cache owner, nor is it up to the cache owner to dictate the style and content of such comments.

[martybartfast]

I think it's out of line deleting logs because you don't agree with how much, or little, they wrote. I'm pretty sure if anyone appealed to GC following such a deletion then their log would be allowed to stand.
Having said that I'm pretty sure there are newbies out there who are logging via iPhones etc who just don't realise the tradition of writing something about the experience, and a gently prod might put them right, but it's difficult to point this out without coming across as holier than thou.

[Mrs Blorenge]

I think it's out of line deleting logs because you don't agree with how much, or little, they wrote. I'm pretty sure if anyone appealed to GC following such a deletion then their log would be allowed to stand.
Having said that I'm pretty sure there are newbies out there who are logging via iPhones etc who just don't realise the tradition of writing something about the experience, and a gently prod might put them right, but it's difficult to point this out without coming across as holier than thou.

Yes.
I feel the more very short logs that appear on caches the more the trend will be copied because new cachers coming into the game will assume that's the 'done thing'. I think that letting new people know that most cache owners enjoy reading a sentence rather more than "TFTC" is important.

Incidentally, this is the email reply I had from the cacher I sent my email to:

Thanks for the e mail, my Geocache app has been painfully slow and kept freezing me today, I was just grateful to get the tackable and found it done! It's was a very good cache and thank you for taking the time to help out.

Many Thanks and happy caching.


That's fine by me.

[The Wombles]

I dislike blank or single word logs but discovered that it is all too easy to submit blank logs accidentally using the geocaching App. I've done this several times myself, and then had to use the browser to edit my log so that I could add some content.

[hamcam]

I come into this debate from a slightly outsider position having not placed any caches (I've waited til I found 100, which I achieved yesterday, to get a good feel of caches before placing any) so haven't experienced anyone logging my caches.
I understand people's displeasure about having gone out of their way to receive no thanks (like holding a door open for someone to stroll through without taking the blind bit of notice of you), but I worry about the hobby becoming elitist if we delete logs or ruin others enjoyment. I always write logs either about the cache or my experience along the way, but sometimes I do struggle if I have done a series of similar caches or if the cache is a bit boring.
One of my concerns is that people with learning difficulties, dyslexia or people who are just not used to creative writing or computers will feel pushed out of healthy, educational outdoor activity that could bring so many people such fun.

Hamish