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Thread: Discussions around where requests for guidelines come from

  1. #1

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    Default Discussions around where requests for guidelines come from

    Quote Originally Posted by Ve8 View Post
    So its fine to place one outside this area hmy:hmy:hmy:hmy:


    I'm no legal eagle but I'd be surprised if creating fake signs of this nature was not already against the law.

    Adding something specific to the current guidelines such as a fire hydrant sign could risk creating a massive set of guidelines over the long term which nobody will be bothered to read. I think something more general covering health and safety might be more appropriate maybe including this as an example. It should go without saying the wording will need careful construction, it's also worth considering how this could adversely effect some of the excellent hides which already in place.
    +1

    But would just like to clarify who asked the GAGB to consider making it a rule? I am presuming a GC.com reviewer. I would be interested to know also why this has been requested secretly? In the interest of openness it may be beneficial to post the communication in this thread.
    Trust your feelings, let go your conscious self


  2. #2

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    This was raised on the GAGB facebook page initially. Or it could have been the reviewers facebook page, top of my head I can't remember. Not really an issue where it came from, its a issue that's been raised so rather than ignore it, it has been put out for discussion

    A geocaching.com reviewer then pointed out to the GAGB that GC had banned them in South Wales.

    There really isn't anything more than that.

    To clarify once more GAGB publish guidelines not rules.
    Last edited by Mongoose39uk; 26th November 2011 at 08:25 PM. Reason: Elaboration

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Boogie View Post
    +1

    But would just like to clarify who asked the GAGB to consider making it a rule? I am presuming a GC.com reviewer. I would be interested to know also why this has been requested secretly? In the interest of openness it may be beneficial to post the communication in this thread.
    Getting totally pi33ed off with members of the East Midlands caching community trying to sabotage GAGB. Good night.
    Last edited by MBFace; 26th November 2011 at 08:53 PM. Reason: Clarity

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by MBFace View Post
    Getting totally pi33ed off with members of the East Midlands caching community trying to sabotage GAGB. Good night.
    Sorry you feel that way. I was actually trying to look after the interests of the GAGB as it appears to me that the GAGB is being used to serve a personal agenda. As stated in the OP the GAGB have been asked to create a RULE, by whom is what I was asking.

    For me unless we know all the facts it appears that the agenda is being set behind closed doors by possibly a commercial organisation.
    Trust your feelings, let go your conscious self


  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Boogie View Post
    Sorry you feel that way. I was actually trying to look after the interests of the GAGB as it appears to me that the GAGB is being used to serve a personal agenda. As stated in the OP the GAGB have been asked to create a RULE, by whom is what I was asking.

    For me unless we know all the facts it appears that the agenda is being set behind closed doors by possibly a commercial organisation.
    Why don't you go and read the pages on Facebook where it was raised. Not by the GAGB not by a reviewer.

    Anyone can ask for a guideline.

    This is on a public page of the GAGB's forum you don't even have to be a member of the GAGB to see it. Hardly behind closed doors is it?

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose39uk View Post
    Why don't you go and read the pages on Facebook where it was raised. Not by the GAGB not by a reviewer.

    Anyone can ask for a guideline.

    This is on a public page of the GAGB's forum you don't even have to be a member of the GAGB to see it. Hardly behind closed doors is it?
    I have had a quick skim on the GAGB facebook page but can not see it, can you post a link? No need to be rude :wacko: the OP was the first I heard of it. As I say in the interests of openness making all the facts clear is good sense. It allows an objective viewpoint to be reached.

    I agree anyone can ask for a guideline but you raise another point. How do we as an organisation moderate ourselves so not to look like knee jerk politics??
    Trust your feelings, let go your conscious self


  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by MBFace View Post
    Come off it, we're talking safety here as anyone who has looked at the Facebook topic will already know.
    Glad to hear you take this as an issue of safety, perhaps we could hear a few of your thoughts on the topic? Or you could just keep stirring the pot, it is a free country for now it's your pleasure.
    Trust your feelings, let go your conscious self


  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan White View Post
    Thanks for that - I did try, honest. Still, it's quite a recent Act and such things are rarely well publicised. Even the Highway Code doesn't make reference to it, except to say "Do not stop or park...Anywhere you would prevent access for Emergency Services", and I take that to mean access gates etc rather than hydrants.

    However, the important point is that a fake fire hydrant sign does not "damage or obstruct a fire hydrant".
    The point being that the Mid and West Wales Fire and Rescue Service contacted Groundspeak and requested that "False Fire Hydrants" not be used! Their reasoning being that it could cause a delay in getting a water supply, in a Emergency.

    It would seem that contrary to your belief, they do actively use the signs to find the Hydrants.

    The information on the Hydrant is (I'm happy to be corrected by a Fire Officer over this) Size of Pipe and Distance to the Connection from the sign.

    As for someone having a dig about a GC Reviewer contacting the GAGB.
    The issue was raised by a member of the community to other members in a public discussion location, about a specific cache. Someone then contacted the Mid and West Wales Fire and Rescue Service, who then contacted Groundspeak. Groundspeak contacted the local Reviewers, who then contacted the GAGB.

    No agenda on anyone with "Commercial Interests", no agenda by a GC Reviewer. The agenda comes directly from the Mid and West Wales Fire and Rescue Service, expressing a genuine concern on their behalf. Does that answer the finger pointing at Groundspeak?

    Any person who is negative about not using False Hydrant Signs, please contact your local Fire and Rescue Service, and ask them for their opinions on Geocachers putting out False Hydrant Signs, as part of a game.

    Groundspeak have actioned a request off one Professional Fire and Rescue Service after someone who is or was a serving Fire Service officer, contacted them with his concerns. As they are the Professionals in this area, why should we who are not dispute their concern that the False Signs could cause a delay.

    So as some would believe and finger point. It's not GC Reviewers trying to put into place a "Rule" applicable to "All" Listing Sites. Its a Emergency Service, who wish to see a Rule put in place. Is that a "Political" Knee Jerk or a attempt to avoid a member of a Emergency Crew from being delayed due to a False Hydrant sign?

    It's interesting to note that Mid and West Wales Fire And Rescue Service covers a large part of GC's South Wales Region, that means their area borders on to at least 4 other Fire Service areas, so that means crews can be tasked into out of Area locations in Emergencies, not only in Wales but also into England and vice versa. Those Crews will be highly reliant on Hydrant Signs in unfamiliar areas, so false information could cause them serious issues.

    Deci
    My post is my personal opinion and as such you do not have my permission to quote me outside of these forums!

    Dave
    Brenin Tegeingl
    Formerly known as Mancunian Pyrocacher on GC

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by MBFace View Post
    Not sure how to do links. It's in UK & Ireland GC Reviewers & Community Tea Bar and posted by Terry Ryan.
    It may just be me but I can not see on there who requested the GAGB look at this either . This is yet another FB page I don't monitor!
    Trust your feelings, let go your conscious self


  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mancunian View Post
    The point being that the Mid and West Wales Fire and Rescue Service contacted Groundspeak and requested that "False Fire Hydrants" not be used! Their reasoning being that it could cause a delay in getting a water supply, in a Emergency.

    It would seem that contrary to your belief, they do actively use the signs to find the Hydrants.

    The information on the Hydrant is (I'm happy to be corrected by a Fire Officer over this) Size of Pipe and Distance to the Connection from the sign.

    As for someone having a dig about a GC Reviewer contacting the GAGB.
    The issue was raised by a member of the community to other members in a public discussion location, about a specific cache. Someone then contacted the Mid and West Wales Fire and Rescue Service, who then contacted Groundspeak. Groundspeak contacted the local Reviewers, who then contacted the GAGB.

    No agenda on anyone with "Commercial Interests", no agenda by a GC Reviewer. The agenda comes directly from the Mid and West Wales Fire and Rescue Service, expressing a genuine concern on their behalf. Does that answer the finger pointing at Groundspeak?

    Any person who is negative about not using False Hydrant Signs, please contact your local Fire and Rescue Service, and ask them for their opinions on Geocachers putting out False Hydrant Signs, as part of a game.

    Groundspeak have actioned a request off one Professional Fire and Rescue Service after someone who is or was a serving Fire Service officer, contacted them with his concerns. As they are the Professionals in this area, why should we who are not dispute their concern that the False Signs could cause a delay.

    So as some would believe and finger point. It's not GC Reviewers trying to put into place a "Rule" applicable to "All" Listing Sites. Its a Emergency Service, who wish to see a Rule put in place. Is that a "Political" Knee Jerk or a attempt to avoid a member of a Emergency Crew from being delayed due to a False Hydrant sign?

    It's interesting to note that Mid and West Wales Fire And Rescue Service covers a large part of GC's South Wales Region, that means their area borders on to at least 4 other Fire Service areas, so that means crews can be tasked into out of Area locations in Emergencies, not only in Wales but also into England and vice versa. Those Crews will be highly reliant on Hydrant Signs in unfamiliar areas, so false information could cause them serious issues.

    Deci
    So it was you then, why didn't you just say so?
    Trust your feelings, let go your conscious self


  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Boogie View Post
    I have had a quick skim on the GAGB facebook page but can not see it, can you post a link? No need to be rude :wacko: the OP was the first I heard of it. As I say in the interests of openness making all the facts clear is good sense. It allows an objective viewpoint to be reached.

    I agree anyone can ask for a guideline but you raise another point. How do we as an organisation moderate ourselves so not to look like knee jerk politics??
    Not being rude, just asking you to gather your facts first. I can get rude if you like.

    Hmm why do you think we opened this thread if not to avoid knee jerk policies. Politics I aint interested in

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Boogie View Post
    So it was you then, why didn't you just say so?
    Actually No it wasn't, I was copied in by Groundspeak, and had read the original comments on Facebook and seen the cache which created the issue.

    Because I was copied in and had seen the the several FB topics, I was able to provide more background information.


    Deci
    My post is my personal opinion and as such you do not have my permission to quote me outside of these forums!

    Dave
    Brenin Tegeingl
    Formerly known as Mancunian Pyrocacher on GC

  13. #13

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    Default Discussions around where requests for guidelines come from

    Discussions around where requests for guidelines come from moved to this thread.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose39uk View Post
    Discussions around where requests for guidelines come from moved to this thread.
    Why don't you open a thread to post new requests and have it as a sticky. New members could see what has already been requested. Not suggesting that origins must be added but when it is requested by a public body or commercial organisation it should be stated as so.
    Trust your feelings, let go your conscious self


  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mancunian View Post
    Actually No it wasn't, I was copied in by Groundspeak, and had read the original comments on Facebook and seen the cache which created the issue.

    Because I was copied in and had seen the the several FB topics, I was able to provide more background information.


    Deci
    So at least I know it was groundspeak.
    Trust your feelings, let go your conscious self


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