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  1. #1

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    Question ♿- Disabled Cacher - handicaching

    As a disabled geocacher, there are still a lot of caches that are inaccessible to me due to stiles and kissing gates. I would like to see more of these replaced with gates with Radar keys - where the surrounding paths/environment was suitable for mobility scooters, wheelchairs, buggies etc.

    This is something I have enquired about (unofficially) with a member of my local parish council, but was wondering if this would be something that the GAGB would be willing to help with on a nationwide basis?

    I also use the handicaching.com site and would like to encourage more people to use it. I would like to thank all the Cachers who have supported and encouraged me to get out and enjoy caching

    I would also like to thank all the Cache Owners who have supported the handicaching reviews I have done on their caches so far by simply adding the HTML code that I email them, under the 'Long Description' of their cache pages that gives a direct link to the handicaching review Could the GAGB help to promote this?

    Many thanks
    Heather aka Cache on Wheels

  2. #2

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    I'm probably the least qualified person to answer this but I can't see it sat here without a reply - so here goes

    I've tried through various means to gauge the demand for and the usefulness of Handicache ratings to no avail.

    My local friendly reviewer went to great lengths to encourage me that it was a worthwhile exercise and, on the basis that the local friendly reviewer is happy to contribute so much of their own spare time for the benefit of the rest of us, I figured this small repayment was the very least I could do to show my gratitude in return.

    And I've rated a good number of caches to the best of my limited ability on the basis that someone might make use of them - both caches that I have placed and the caches of others that I have found.

    Whenever I've found a really good example of a cache that I've felt would be particularly suitable for and enjoyable to a less able cacher, I've approached the CO and asked them to add the review to their cache page - and most of them, to their credit, did so :socool:

    Admittedly though I haven't done any Handicache reviews for a few months, and I'll tell you why. Never once have I had any feedback that anyone ever has benefited from a single one of those reviews.

    Now I'm not looking for anyone to pledge their undying gratitude - absolutely not. It would be useful though to know that I wasn't compiling / providing information that wasn't being used. Nobody wants to invest time doing something pointless which benefits nobody.

    So I guess what I'm saying is that if more people demanded such information AND fed back on how useful (or indeed how rubbish) it had been - more people might, seeing that their time would be invested usefully, make an extra effort to contribute themselves.

  3. #3

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    I'm probably the best qualified candidate to answer this, due to my work as a member of Team OC UK because we liaise with handicaching in our work and have links to the handicaching site on the OC UK website. Whilst I understand the concerns of this in relation to the people involved, my dad being one of the mobility impaired. I do not think that the GAGB have the power, the legal authority, the training, own enough land thought the membership or possess the level of full understanding to discuss, to even attempt to create or implement such a wide ranging scheme thoughout the country to the extent you have asked. I'm sorry to have to tell you this but I just don't belive its possible.

    Sorry again
    Dominic

  4. #4

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    Thumbs up

    As my wife has limited mobility I'm aware of the challenge that just a modest countryside excursion can entail, however, she does not use a wheelchair, so appreciate this takes the challenge to a greater level.

    It is clear that stiles and kissing gates present insurmountable obstacles to someone restricted to a wheelchair, so I would support their replacement with regular gates, if they are located on a route that could otherwise be negotiated by wheelchair. The use of locks with Radar keys would be an appropriate measure to ensure that footpaths don't become bridle paths inadvertently.

    However, I would resist measures that would urbanise the countryside, such as putting a solid surface on a footpath, or artificially widening a path through vegetation. An exception to this would be high traffic areas that become quagmires, where appropriate measures should be taken to improve drainage and ensure wheeled passage is manageable.

    I think we should do more as an association, to support our less able members, however, I think we are too small a voice and too marginal an interest group to be able to get commitment from authorities to act on a nationwide basis. To this end, I think GAGB should affiliate itself with the Ramblers Association, which has a much larger and broader membership and is thus much better able to campaign nationally in this regard.

  5. #5

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    What he said

    Thanks
    Dominic

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by sandvika View Post
    As my wife has limited mobility I'm aware of the challenge that just a modest countryside excursion can entail, however, she does not use a wheelchair, so appreciate this takes the challenge to a greater level.

    It is clear that stiles and kissing gates present insurmountable obstacles to someone restricted to a wheelchair, so I would support their replacement with regular gates, if they are located on a route that could otherwise be negotiated by wheelchair. The use of locks with Radar keys would be an appropriate measure to ensure that footpaths don't become bridle paths inadvertently.

    However, I would resist measures that would urbanise the countryside, such as putting a solid surface on a footpath, or artificially widening a path through vegetation. An exception to this would be high traffic areas that become quagmires, where appropriate measures should be taken to improve drainage and ensure wheeled passage is manageable.

    I think we should do more as an association, to support our less able members, however, I think we are too small a voice and too marginal an interest group to be able to get commitment from authorities to act on a nationwide basis. To this end, I think GAGB should affiliate itself with the Ramblers Association, which has a much larger and broader membership and is thus much better able to campaign nationally in this regard.
    I would not wish to seek urbanising the countryside by any means.
    I do not think it is impossible to liaise with the councils to have some gates replaced by radar key gates, it will be something that will take time to work out the best approach and maybe something that would filter into the countryside as maintanence is required by the council.
    .
    I am not meaning we start approaching the councils to replace all of them either, maybe identify some key routes that will be used regularly by many Cachers, that are already suitable for wheelchairs and approaching our local parish council for advice on how we would go about this.

  7. #7

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    Many people with alternate access needs have a fear of admitting their needs so often do not thank people they don't know for their help. I have seen people harassed due to admitting their alternative needs. I would read reviews for access in many environments but wouldn't want to reveal that I had a disability.

    Many people with alternative access needs have problems with revealing such needs due to the complexity of their health issues. For many months I denied to others my issues and wouldn't have posted anything that may have caused people to know of them.

    Because the way that some people treat people with alternative needs they never reveal them to anyone often to the detriment of themselves. If society in general was more alternative needs friendly this wouldn't happen and people would be more open to say thank you and not worried about the consequences of admitting to having alternative access needs.

    SO FAR EVERYONE I HAVE HAD CONTACT WITH IN GEOCACHING HAS BEEN ALTERNATIVE ACCESS NEED FRIENDLY, WE DO KNOW THAT NOT ALL CACHES WOULD BE ACCESSIBLE TO US THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE CAN NOT ALWAYS ACHIEVE FOR MANY REASONS.

    THANK YOU TO ANYONE THAT RATES THEIR CACHES ON HANDICACHING.COM, OR ADDS RELEVANT ENTRIES TO THEIR CACHE PAGE ON GEOCACHING.COM ITS A HELP TO ME AND MANY OTHERS.


    Quote Originally Posted by Team Microdot View Post
    Admittedly though I haven't done any Handicache reviews for a few months, and I'll tell you why. Never once have I had any feedback that anyone ever has benefited from a single one of those reviews.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Weaver View Post
    I have seen people harassed due to admitting their alternative needs. I would read reviews for access in many environments but wouldn't want to reveal that I had a disability.
    I trust this is not in a geocaching environment?

    In seven and a half years I have only come across negativity from one person, that person is still active now, they know who they are and I suspect given my caching record they recognise their error.

    As a person who has recently been victim of disability hate crime (a serious offence last week), I am very well aware of the magnitude of discrimination in society, but I wish to stress it IS NOT IN THE GEOCACHING COMMUNITY, so please, rest easy, you won't get any trouble from people within this game. They will respect you for what you can do, but I have learned the best way is to integrate and be a part of the larger community, I have no wish to be separate because I may or may not have a wish for accurate access information.

  9. #9

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    No it wasn't in a geocaching environment that I was referring to but the same fears would apply to the possibility it would happen in the geocaching environment.

    I would say that with the thousands of geocachers I am unsure how you could be sure it never happens in the geocaching environment. You just need to take proper safety precautions to protect yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorsetgal View Post
    I trust this is not in a geocaching environment?

    In seven and a half years I have only come across negativity from one person, that person is still active now, they know who they are and I suspect given my caching record they recognise their error.

    As a person who has recently been victim of disability hate crime (a serious offence last week), I am very well aware of the magnitude of discrimination in society, but I wish to stress it IS NOT IN THE GEOCACHING COMMUNITY, so please, rest easy, you won't get any trouble from people within this game. They will respect you for what you can do, but I have learned the best way is to integrate and be a part of the larger community, I have no wish to be separate because I may or may not have a wish for accurate access information.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Weaver View Post
    No it wasn't in a geocaching environment that I was referring to but the same fears would apply to the possibility it would happen in the geocaching environment.

    I would say that with the thousands of geocachers I am unsure how you could be sure it never happens in the geocaching environment. You just need to take proper safety precautions to protect yourself.
    I don't think you need take any greater precautions than you would on a daily basis in a similar environment Paul.

    You started this theme on a local forum and I thought had been reassured?

  11. #11

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    I will approach my local parish council about this and seek their advice on any projects or such like that may already be in place or on their agenda of making the countryside more accessible to wheelchair users. After all, if they already have something in place, it could save a lot if time and effort.

    From my knowledge and experience of making parts of my local village accessible via wheelchair / scooter, I know these things usually start at Parish Council level and require their support. Measures have been out in place to make this happen too

    I have searched disabled accessible routes in the countryside but not been very successful so far. I understand that taking this on on a nationwide level would be massive, and that is not what I am asking.

    Does anyone know of any maps already available? Some bridle ways are acessible but as one comment pointed out, this can make the tracks very muddy.

    I am happy to work with the gagb committee in feeding back info I recieve from my local parish council ... Perhaps from this, we could work at producing a standard letter, hopefully with the support of the gagb, that we could download from the site and send to our parish council.
    That way, there would be one standard letter that clearly outlines our aim in making the countryside more accessible not just to geocachers by any means, but to all who use a wheelchair or mobility scooter.

    Mainly what I would like to know from the gagb committee, is:
    1- Are you willing to explore this possability and
    2- Are you willing to help promote handicaching or any other means of supporting disabled Cachers? I know handicaching has been around for some time, and despite great efforts of other Cachers, it has not become well used. However, there are always new Cachers joining and knowledge if handicaching will be the important key hopefully making it well known.
    A great start would be having info and a link on the gagb site for all to see.

    One if the hosts from the UK Geocaching Podcast show (Octiber show) did post notes to I think grease monkey? That automatically asks you if you want to do a handicaching review when submitting a cache. Here is the link:
    http://www.ukgcpodcast.com/2012/10/0...-handicaching/
    This would be great if this could be incorporated into GC.com when submitting a cache and even better, logging a cache as found.

  12. #12

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    I think GAGB should support specific requests for better access, and if it doesn't help, be prepared to escalate the matter too.

    I've been a parish councillor since 2003 (it's an unpaid elected position) and in my experience, public rights of way are the responsibility of borough or district councils or unitary authorities. The parish council can be supportive of reasonable requests and can also support restoration work, where this is needed.

    (I'm happy to report that the tiny land holding that my parish council has is accessible through gates easily wide enough for a wheel chair, as well as by a vehicular entrance. Our current premises are rented, we hope in due course to have custom-built premises and have already specified that the new council chamber must be accessible by wheelchair.)

  13. #13

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    Smile Wheelchair access

    That's very good advice, thank you do you think I would be better going straight to the rights of way, whom I have a named contact, or thorough] the parish council first by requesting it in the agenda for an upcoming meeting?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cache on Wheels View Post
    That's very good advice, thank you do you think I would be better going straight to the rights of way, whom I have a named contact, or thorough] the parish council first by requesting it in the agenda for an upcoming meeting?
    If there are specific locations where you would like gates installing, in your parish, then now might be a good time to ask as it's budget setting time for 2013/14. It might be easier to convince your parish council to allocate funds to this than a more remote borough or district council, especially as borough and district council budgets are under pressure and tax increases are limited by law, whereas parish councils don't have the same restrictions, as far as I am aware.

    However, if you have a supportive rights of way officer then by all means ask them too and also let them know you are asking your parish, because they might have costings to hand, saving your parish some work

  15. #15

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    Perhaps it would be useful to have a formal GAGB "Access officer" (who doesn't necessarily need to be a member of the committee) but who could provide information and support for these sort of issues and indeed other access issues such as footpath availability.

    I'm aware that others such as the Ramblers have such a capability and we could potentially join forces with them on many issues.


    Caching since 2001
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  16. #16

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    The Dorset County section of the Ramblers Association would be a good first port of call for access issues connected with Rights of Ways.

    They have a website at http://www.dorset-ramblers.org.uk/ they keep a good eye on developments Right of Way wise throughout the County.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cache on Wheels View Post
    That's very good advice, thank you do you think I would be better going straight to the rights of way, whom I have a named contact, or thorough] the parish council first by requesting it in the agenda for an upcoming meeting?

  17. #17

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    I have handicache rated some of my hides and was regularly rating my finds until a couple of months ago when I read on Facebook that the ratings on Handicaching.com weren't useful because they required a link through to a different website..

    I don't have any specialist knowledge nor am I qualified to speak on behalf of disabled cachers, but if the GAGB want to campaign for trying to get some kind of Handicache rating facility incorporated in the listing sites, which will make it more user friendly and of benefit to those who need it then you have my full support and I am happy to help in any way I can.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cache on Wheels View Post
    As a disabled geocacher, there are still a lot of caches that are inaccessible to me due to stiles and kissing gates. I would like to see more of these replaced with gates with Radar keys - where the surrounding paths/environment was suitable for mobility scooters, wheelchairs, buggies etc.

    This is something I have enquired about (unofficially) with a member of my local parish council, but was wondering if this would be something that the GAGB would be willing to help with on a nationwide basis?

    I also use the handicaching.com site and would like to encourage more people to use it. I would like to thank all the Cachers who have supported and encouraged me to get out and enjoy caching

    I would also like to thank all the Cache Owners who have supported the handicaching reviews I have done on their caches so far by simply adding the HTML code that I email them, under the 'Long Description' of their cache pages that gives a direct link to the handicaching review Could the GAGB help to promote this?

    Many thanks
    Heather aka Cache on Wheels
    I would have to admit when it comes to disabled caching i know little to nothing about the problems a person in that position faces . personally i feel that the GAGB needs to be behind/support someone like your self who could be an adviser, and maybe work with other organisations who are trying to highlight the problems faced by disabled people if we could approach other organisations and work together we would have a bigger voice when asking for change.* TOGERTHER WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE*

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    She who must be obeyed cannot walk far either - so my solution has been to put out a small series of "drive by" caches that she can help me with maintenance, It ensure that she stays involved and interested - I think that those of us with limited mobility, or partners etc., who have these problems put out more drive bys and encourage other cache hiders to consider mobility when doing so we would have a better hobby for all concerned :socool:
    Si vis pacem para bellum

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    This is something that I would strenuously support, I believe that the GAGB ought to be the conduit for our players to gain a voice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daddyanddude View Post
    I would have to admit when it comes to disabled caching i know little to nothing about the problems a person in that position faces . personally i feel that the GAGB needs to be behind/support someone like your self who could be an adviser, and maybe work with other organisations who are trying to highlight the problems faced by disabled people if we could approach other organisations and work together we would have a bigger voice when asking for change.* TOGERTHER WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE*
    thank you so much for your kind words of support
    I would be happy to be in board as an advisor for this. Like co-opted but not a full committee member - that's if members and the new committee would accept my offer
    Thank you fir your comment

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cache on Wheels View Post
    I would be happy to be in board as an advisor for this. Like co-opted but not a full committee member - that's if members and the new committee would accept my offer
    Absolutely superb idea

    Real feedback from those who benefit directly is the best possible fuel for continued support and improvement :cheers:

    People are generally likely to contribute more in cases where they can actually see positive results arising from their efforts :wub:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Microdot View Post
    Absolutely superb idea

    Real feedback from those who benefit directly is the best possible fuel for continued support and improvement :cheers:

    People are generally likely to contribute more in cases where they can actually see positive results arising from their efforts :wub:
    Thank you I always think anything that can help others and make things easier for them is fantastic I think good communication of sharing information is key here :socool:

  24. #24

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    Speaking personally, as a disabled person who has almost seven and a half years experience of finding and hiding geocaches, I'd say that although it has merit, if the handicaching website was going to catch on, it would have done so by now.

    I would much rather GAGB encourage cache setters to consider using the cache difficulty and terrain rating widget thing for every cache they set, rather than a finger in the wind, approach.

    Also I would like to see setters encouraged to consider in detail obstacles en route to a cache from their suggested parking / approach route. Without giving too much away, it's fairly straightforward to say, x stiles between parking and cache, or thes a kissing gate or whatever the obstacle might be.

    I see the main problem is not unwillingness of geocachers to share this info they simply don't think about it. That's the main reason they won't visit handicaching either.

    I spend my life wanting to be included, by moving accessible information to a separate site it's another separation rather than working for one integrated community.

    Also, this access information is of use to many others, like cyclists, young families etc, none of whom would regard themselves necessarily as disabled and wouldn't likely think to go to handicaching. Geocaching is for all, so lets encourage setters to consider the whole community but not burden them with joining another site that not many people use anyway.

    So I for one would be asking GAGB to raise awareness amongst geocachers of accurate access information on their main cache page.

    Who seriously, when looking up a geocache on a phone or gpsr is going to then log on to another site?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorsetgal View Post
    Who seriously, when looking up a geocache on a phone or gpsr is going to then log on to another site?
    That's a very good point. The strength of GCvote is that it integrates with the dominant listing site. Handicaching might be better served by adopting the same approach.

    How about a listing site that gives the distance for each cache, the elevation gain, % off trail, % moderate overgrowth, % heavy overgrowth, estimates for physical challenge, mental challenge and camouflage? It's TerraCaching, the Betamax of listing sites! I don't know why they are alone in having adopted this years ago, as good ideas should be infectious, but it shows that GAGB should make adding information like this, and the handicaching ratings a campaign to take to all listing sites. I'm definitely up for this - anything that makes planning of caching trips easier for those with restricted mobility.

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    I think the integration of handi caching into gc.com is a great idea the reason why I don't use it is because its currently a complete faff.

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    Thumbs up

    I have to confess to having been too lazy to rate my caches for handicapped use beyond using the appropriate icon when relevant, but support this effort and will try harder in future. Those of us who can get about should be thankful for that and having once hurt myself while caching I am so glad that I was only disabled temporarily.
    Enjoy your caching!

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Stead View Post
    I have to confess to having been too lazy to rate my caches for handicapped use beyond using the appropriate icon when relevant, but support this effort and will try harder in future. Those of us who can get about should be thankful for that and having once hurt myself while caching I am so glad that I was only disabled temporarily.

    Sorry about that John

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    Thumbs up Thank you all for your input so far :)

    it is truly fantastic how this thread has raised awareness, inspired people, enthused people into rating caches both of their own and those they have visited and developed into some great ideas of a positive way forward to benefit many Disabled Cachers, those with limited mobility, impairments ... This ultimately has raised awareness and understanding all round.
    I am so pleased and grateful for everyone's input to this discussion. :socool:

    We may not all agree with what everyone has to say, but it is important that we listen to everyone's point of view and ideas

    I thank those candidates who are up for election for their input too it has been great to hear / read your views on this subject and your ideas for increasing awareness and ideas you would like to see implemented in the short and long term

    It was also great to read some summaries and proposals of the discussion so far especially beneficial to those who have just joined the thread.
    It would be good if you could post that again please someone
    Please keep the ideas coming and let's not allow this important topic to be lost and archived once the elections have finished.

    Will these threads stay active once the elections are over gagb?
    Is it possible to keep this thread open and active for people to continue to contribute please? I don't know how these things work, so would it stay where it is or be moved under a different heading please?

    I would very much like to be involved with the new committee somehow on this subject, and know there are others who have contributed whose input would be of great benefit too
    Many thanks
    Heather aka Cache on Wheels

  30. #30

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    Post What does disabled accessible mean?

    I know it is difficult as people have such a wide range of conditions, disabilities or illnesses that can affect them differently throughout a day, sometimes changing within minutes like myself. So I understand it is difficult especially for others to know where to start in assessing if a cache would be accessible for people with any type of disabilities or limited mobility.
    All one can do, is provide a more detailed breakdown of access to a cache - the great thing is you do not have to be disabled to rate a cache and anyone can rate a cache that either they own or have found. The great thing about this is it helps us all gain info and educates us on what to think about when assessing a cache for accessibility :
    That is why handicaching.com is so good, to give you an idea, these are the headings you choose one of the options from the drop down list

    1- D/T Rating: Our opinion if what the D/T should be.
    2- distance to cache: this helps enormously when planning if to use my walker, someone's arm, or scooter / wheelchair.
    3- Route Surface.
    4- Route Slope
    5- Route obstructions eg stiles: if a route is relatively short to the GZ, I can be pushed or push my wheelchair as I would my walker, if there is a gate, it is easy for my husband or caching buddy to fold my W/C in order to get it over the style / kissing gate etc
    6- Cache Height: this helps so j know if I can likely retrieve the cache using my helping hand or if I need help to retrieve the cache
    Just to be clear, I am NOT talking about having help to retrieve a cache that is up a tree :lol: I'm talking about a cache that would be within easy reach of a fully able bodied person eg 0-6ft
    7 you can then add info specifically related to the cache in the description section.

    If you would like to see an example of how the link looks in a cache page and what the review looks like, please feel free to have a look at one of my caches.
    Click on the yellow handicaching logo that will take you straight to the handicaching rating. This is think link to one of my caches 'The Square': https://www.geocaching.com/seek/cach...6-7c0197f943d6

    You may find some of the wording I have used helpful with your own descriptions on your caches: eg 'depending on how you feel at that moment ...'
    A Handicaching.com can be useful to have on your page, especially when you are unsure if the W/C icon is appropriate to use. You could leave it off but add a link to handicaching.com and write some info on your description part if the cache page

    Please let me know if you find this helpful or give me feedback. I am happy to answer questions via PM or help others to do handicaching reviews or advise when setting out caches.


  31. #31

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    Heather, seriously, have you read what geocaching.com provide on this? The list inspired by Clayjar? Everyone is invited to fill it in, and if they did so, it would make every geocache have good quality access information, not just a few.

    https://www.geocaching.com/hide/rate.aspx

    Answer the following questions based on the most difficult parts of the cache:

    Is an overnight stay likely?
    Will it take more than a day to hike in, find the cache, and hike out again?


    No

    Yes
    What is the length of the hike?
    This is the length of the hike from the most logical parking area to the cache.


    Less than 1/2 mile
    Less than 1 km

    1/2 mile to 2 miles
    About 1 to 3 km

    2 miles to 10 miles
    About 3 to 16 km

    Over 10 miles
    Over 16 km
    What is the trail like?
    How is the the most difficult part of the cache? If the cache is within a few feet of a trail, don't worry about the last few feet.


    Paved pathways
    Asphalt, concrete, or boardwalks.

    Well marked/defined hardpack
    Well packed dirt. You could ride a standard bicycle or push a stroller on this trail without too much effort.

    Other trail types
    Could be gravel, sand, mud, etc. May be an animal trail. If you're riding a bike, it had better be a mountain bike.

    Trail? What trail?
    There is no real trail. Wheels are out. May be following a stream bed or be very rocky.
    Is the path bushy or overgrown?
    Overgrowth refers to any plant or other substance that impedes the path. Keep in mind that conditions change; rate based on your understanding of worst-case conditions.


    Not at all
    There is no overgrowth at all.

    Some light overgrowth
    An adult could step over or around this.

    Yeah, it's pretty overgrown
    It's waist-high or so, or it may be thorny or have poison plants.

    The overgrowth is very heavy
    I can't see the other side! Some type of machete or other cutting device is probably needed. Very likely to have thorns or poison plants.
    What is the terrain elevation like?
    How hard is the steepest part of the cache?


    Basically flat
    Only slight elevation changes. Easy to do in a wheelchair, stroller, bike, etc.

    Some elevation changes
    Changes are slight enough that someone could ride a bike up such a slope.

    Steep elevation changes
    Change is steep. Probably could not ride a bike up this slope, but could push it up.

    Severe elevation changes
    The only way up the slope is to use your hands. Going down may require the use of your backside.
    How easy is it to find the cache?
    Please consider visibility, accessibility, and relative signal strength due to tree cover or other obstructions when answering this question.


    Cache is in plain sight or location is fairly obvious.

    Cache could be in one of several locations. Hunter may have to look for a while.

    Cache may be very well hidden, may be multi-leg, or may use clues to location.

    Cache likely requires special skills, knowledge, or in-depth preparation to find. May require multiple days or trips to find.

    Finding this cache requires very specialized knowledge, skills, or equipment. This is a serious mental or physical challenge.
    |





    Quote Originally Posted by Cache on Wheels View Post
    I know it is difficult as people have such a wide range of conditions, disabilities or illnesses that can affect them differently throughout a day, sometimes changing within minutes like myself. So I understand it is difficult especially for others to know where to start in assessing if a cache would be accessible for people with any type of disabilities or limited mobility.
    All one can do, is provide a more detailed breakdown of access to a cache - the great thing is you do not have to be disabled to rate a cache and anyone can rate a cache that either they own or have found. The great thing about this is it helps us all gain info and educates us on what to think about when assessing a cache for accessibility :
    That is why handicaching.com is so good, to give you an idea, these are the headings you choose one of the options from the drop down list

    1- D/T Rating: Our opinion if what the D/T should be.
    2- distance to cache: this helps enormously when planning if to use my walker, someone's arm, or scooter / wheelchair.
    3- Route Surface.
    4- Route Slope
    5- Route obstructions eg stiles: if a route is relatively short to the GZ, I can be pushed or push my wheelchair as I would my walker, if there is a gate, it is easy for my husband or caching buddy to fold my W/C in order to get it over the style / kissing gate etc
    6- Cache Height: this helps so j know if I can likely retrieve the cache using my helping hand or if I need help to retrieve the cache
    Just to be clear, I am NOT talking about having help to retrieve a cache that is up a tree :lol: I'm talking about a cache that would be within easy reach of a fully able bodied person eg 0-6ft
    7 you can then add info specifically related to the cache in the description section.

    If you would like to see an example of how the link looks in a cache page and what the review looks like, please feel free to have a look at one of my caches.
    Click on the yellow handicaching logo that will take you straight to the handicaching rating. This is think link to one of my caches 'The Square': https://www.geocaching.com/seek/cach...6-7c0197f943d6

    You may find some of the wording I have used helpful with your own descriptions on your caches: eg 'depending on how you feel at that moment ...'
    A Handicaching.com can be useful to have on your page, especially when you are unsure if the W/C icon is appropriate to use. You could leave it off but add a link to handicaching.com and write some info on your description part if the cache page

    Please let me know if you find this helpful or give me feedback. I am happy to answer questions via PM or help others to do handicaching reviews or advise when setting out caches.


  32. #32

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    Sep 2012
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    The main problems with relying on the D/T rating on the cache page are:

    1. People often inflate them to make the cache seem more exciting
    2. People often manipulate them to make them appeal to grid fillers*
    3. Lots of people aren't even aware of the Clayjar originated criteria - and so guess
    4. The D/T rating is decided once - by one person - taking a single route to the cache

    *I'm a grid filler myself - it's one of the games I like to play - this is not a criticism of grid fillers

    At least a Handicache rating allows each and every rater to provide THEIR view of the D/T and, as those people are taking the time to put together a handicache review, I'm inclined to imagine they will take the time to consider the D/T more fully.

    I've actually suggested an additional alternative rating mechanism in the past, but this would require listing site integration.

    My idea is this...

    A cacher's ability level is a comparatively fixed thing - so they rate their own ability once.

    Every time they log a cache, their ability level is recorded against that cache.

    Over time these automatic ratings build and form the basis of statistical data clearly demonstrating which ability levels have been able to successfully complete that cache.

    So those people who do not typically actively rate caches in this way end up doing so automatically

    Those who do typically rate caches in terms of ability could continue to add further text guidance to supplement the automatic rating.

    Sounds simple to me

  33. #33

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    I am one of a handful of people who maintain the public rights of access in Lincolnshire on a voluntary basis. I offered my services due to the amount of time spent on them!

    While I have no experience of caching with someone whose mobility is impaired I have built up a relationship with the RoA team on Lincs council and regardless of whether I am elected or not I am happy to get in touch and find out the processes required to perhaps start that change.

  34. #34

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    Sep 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobo frett View Post
    I am one of a handful of people who maintain the public rights of access in Lincolnshire on a voluntary basis. I offered my services due to the amount of time spent on them!

    While I have no experience of caching with someone whose mobility is impaired I have built up a relationship with the RoA team on Lincs council and regardless of whether I am elected or not I am happy to get in touch and find out the processes required to perhaps start that change.
    Thank you for your comment
    it is fantastic that you have built up such a great relationship with the RoA team on Lincs council :socool: well done on the work you are doing too, it makes a huge difference it is great to read that prople are so positive about moving forward, establishing and building on existing relationships with Agencies and exploring ideas in a positive way to make a difference :cheers:

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Team Microdot View Post

    At least a Handicache rating allows each and every rater to provide THEIR view of the D/T and, as those people are taking the time to put together a handicache review, I'm inclined to imagine they will take the time to consider the D/T more fully.

    I totally agree and that is the main difference. If Groundspeak had something in place that allowed us to do the same, all well and good, but on the other hand, as handicaching is already there and very simple to use, then why not use it? It's down to individuals if they will take the time eg 2-3 mins to do a handicaching rating on a cache they feel would be great and suitable for people with disabilities etc


    I've actually suggested an additional alternative rating mechanism in the past, but this would require listing site integration.

    My idea is this...

    A cacher's ability level is a comparatively fixed thing - so they rate their own ability once.

    some great ideas here thank you
    the only problem with this I could see with this for eg is ones condition / ability can vary so much. Not talking 'good day' or 'bad day' type of thing. Sometimes for many, it can change drastically within minutes.
    So whilst that is a good idea, I'm not sure how it could work.


    Every time they log a cache, their ability level is recorded against that cache.
    How awesome would that be though if you could do that?

    Over time these automatic ratings build and form the basis of statistical data clearly demonstrating which ability levels have been able to successfully complete that cache.

    So those people who do not typically actively rate caches in this way end up doing so automatically

    with every handicaching review that is done, it averages out the score rating for the cache so you will see individual reviews and an average too.

    Those who do typically rate caches in terms of ability could continue to add further text guidance to supplement the automatic rating.

    [COLOR="purple"]it would be great for Cachers to add more text in their description to supplement the auto rating.
    It has amazed me on occasions where a cacher actually write not wheelchair / scooter friendly on the cache page - I made sure I let them know when I logged it that I was able to easily access the route via my scooter.
    I'm having trouble getting my words out and explaining what I mean today, please bear with me, accept my apologies if I have not worded something correctly [/COLOR

    Sounds simple to me
    ]

  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cache on Wheels View Post
    I'm having trouble getting my words out and explaining what I mean today, please bear with me, accept my apologies if I have not worded something correctly
    You're doing just fine

    With regard to the ability of some cacher's changing from moment to moment I expect there will be cachers with conditions in which this happens.

    With the best will in the world no rating system can be a perfect fit in all situations.

    I think every rating has to come with an on a good day I can or an on an average day I can clause.

    Also - as it is automated - the vast majority of the auto-ratings would I expect be coming from fully able cachers - so it might be argued that the only useful data from my suggested mechanism would be the upper and lower ability limits - which is fair as that's exactly what it measures.

    The idea was mainly to gather useful data even from those who don't actively Handicache rate their hides and finds.

    Its usefulness for less able cachers will depend on those less able cachers getting out there, finding the caches and driving the data

  37. #37

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    Many thanks for your response
    This is of course an on going topic and important we all strive for positive outcomes, to make those caches that can be, more accessible.

    Obviously we're not talking about tree climbs etc, clearly not every cacher can do all the caches, whatever ones abilities are
    "Defeat may test you; It need not stop you. If at first you don't succeed, try another way. For every obstacle, there is a solution. Nothing in the world can take the place of persistance. The greatest mistake is giving up."
    Author Unknown :socool:

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