MOD geocaching policy

[The Wombles]

MoD advised GAGB that they were considering their policy towards geocaching in December 2012. GAGB have informed and lobbied on the preparation of this policy over recent months and whilst this process is not yet complete, it is clear that physical caches will not be permitted. The reasons that they have been given are (verbatim):

“a. National Security - It is not appropriate to encourage people to leave or conceal (marked or unmarked) packages on any part of the MOD estate as it contradicts all security procedures and could lead to false security alerts.

b. Public Risk - the majority of the MOD training estate is a risk area where blank fire, pyrotechnics and smoke may be used even outside of the 'live fire' danger areas. The UXO danger is self evident in live ranges but also exists in dry training areas where individuals could inadvertently disturb, or harm themselves, on military debris whilst searching for (or hiding) geo-caches.”

Negotiations are ongoing to consider if non-physical steps / virtual stages may be permitted, for example early steps of multi and puzzle caches, whereigo and Earthcaches. If this is permitted in locations with public access, then it may be possible to place some caches of these types (where appropriate a physical stage could be placed on non-MoD property), with appropriate safety messages on the cache pages.

GAGB has advised Geocaching.com, Opencaching.com and Opencaching.org.uk listing sites (ie those listing sites which communicate with GAGB). MoD intend to review existing physical caches on MoD property regardless of whether they were placed originally with permission. Listing sites will make their own announcement about any further steps.

Here is a google map drawn by Graculus to help identify boundaries.

We will continue to negotiate on this and will advise of developments when appropriate.

[martybartfast]

This was recently brought up in the GS main forum here https://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/in...owtopic=312093 I pointed the cacher to the GAGB forums and I think he's submitted a membership request.

[Graculus]

The UK reviewing team have discussed this change of MOD policy and have decided that no caches will now be published on MOD land. More information in the UK Forum post https://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/in...owtopic=312162

Chris
Graculus
Volunteer UK Reviewer for geocaching.com
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[Benjymo]

Good luck policing that. As yet I cannot find a definitive database of all MOD land.... And I'm in the military!

[von-horst]

Does the GAGB have any information as to whether the MOD are also banning letterboxing?

Given the similarities to Geocaching it seems odd (and unfair) to ban one but not the other...

What would happen if a letterbox were also a cache? Or if the information to find a cache outside the banned zone was hidden in a letterbox?


Please note that I'm asking as a player and not as a reviewer (in which capacity I will continue to blindly do as I'm told!)


Mike

[Happy Humphrey]

I guess that letterboxes have been mentioned quite a bit, if

GAGB have informed and lobbied on the preparation of this policy over recent months.

So how did the MOD explain that anomaly? Also, in the Public Risk section, surely if there's public access to an MOD area then these risks exist whether or not there are geocaches.

[Happy Humphrey]

I guess that letterboxes have been mentioned quite a bit, if
So how did the MOD explain that anomaly? Also, in the Public Risk section, surely if there's public access to an MOD area then these risks exist whether or not there are geocaches.

Anyone? Surely someone here was involved and asked the obvious questions?

[Puzbie]

Around our way there is a lot of MOD land. I live in Frimley, on the Surrey / Hants border.

There are two main sets of ranges: Ash and Pirbright.

Both Ash Ranges, and Pirbright ranges are surrounded by a Red flag zone. Funnily enough, this used to be known as the DANGER area. They even had signs up every so often saying DANGER. A few years ago all these signs were either removed or the words spraypainted out, but I digress.

However, not all the MOD land is in these zones. They have a lot of land surrounding it too, where they do such things as orienteering, band marching practice and the like. They also allow running clubs and the like to use the land, and people can picnic there or forage in the woods for blackberries, bilberries, or mushrooms if they so desire.

Within the red flag zone, in Ash Vale ranges, the public is permitted, when the flags aren't flying. Years ago there was a small area out back which was fenced off due to UXO, but that has since been cleared. There is cattle grazing there too.

However, the Pirbright ranges are permanently out of bounds to the public. You couldn't get in if you tried, as there is a big barbed wire fence all around it. This is because there is an abundance UXO there.

My point is, that the MOD are fully aware of where the dangers are, so any ban that is being put in place is not down to that. None of the local wardens I have spoken to over the last couple of days are even aware of this ban. They had no personal problem with geocaches either, provided common sense was employed.

I said on the main geocaching forum that ordinary members can assist here, and I will repeat that sentiment here. We can check existing caches on MOD land to make sure they are not contravening byelaws, and we can practice cache-in trash-out. My main query with regards to this is who should we report contravening caches too?

Oh, hello by the way. And thanks for the prompt assistance of the mods who helped sort out the problem with my account!

[Pajaholic]

Negotiations are ongoing to consider if non-physical steps / virtual stages may be permitted, for example early steps of multi and puzzle caches, whereigo and Earthcaches. If this is permitted in locations with public access, then it may be possible to place some caches of these types (where appropriate a physical stage could be placed on non-MoD property), with appropriate safety messages on the cache pages.

(my bold)
Hang on there a minute! If public access is permitted to an area, I cannot see how MOD can object to non-physical stages of multis, earthcaches, etc. All people are required to do is note some information, perhaps even take a measurement or two. Nothing is left on MOD land. Pragmatically, geocachers are doing nothing different to (say) bird watchers etc. whose activities are welcomed with open arms.

IMO, the GAGB would be acting against the best interests of its members if they direct reviewers not to approve caches that have non-physical elements on MOD land -- provided that no containers are left on MOD land and appropriate permission is obtained for the placement from the (non-MOD) landowner.

[Maple Leaf]

There is a meeting with the MOD scheduled for later this month, so until that has taken place we don't have any further information.

[DizzyPair]

Any news?

[Maple Leaf]

Any news?

I have received confirmation that the meeting has taken place but don't have any details.
We are currently waiting for a letter/report of the meeting from the MOD. I was hoping that this would arrive before the UK Mega event so that we would have some more information to pass on, but this is now looking unlikely as even if I receive something today, there won't be time to discuss with the rest of the committee before I head to the Mega event tomorrow.

As soon as we have more information, we will pass it on.

I still can't understand why no member of the committee was involved

[frosty68]

Puzzbie, unless I'm misunderstanding, gagb aren't involved in the negotiations, a member (known to them) is.whether this is a good, or bad thing remains to be seen, but I'm pretty sure I couldn't get the desired outcome as I have no experience of such matters

[Jacaru]

I will be quite willing to nominate you Puzbie, as I believe that you will be the one to sort out all the caching problems that our small nation faces, and that you will be open about everything, and that you will report daily that there is nothing to report as openly and honestly as you can. opcorn:

[Puzbie]

I will be quite willing to nominate you Puzbie, as I believe that you will be the one to sort out all the caching problems that our small nation faces, and that you will be open about everything, and that you will report daily that there is nothing to report as openly and honestly as you can. opcorn:

Thanks for the useful input. I will take it on board.

[Jacaru]

Thanks for the useful input. I will take it on board.

So are you accepting my request to nominate you when it is time?

[Puzbie]

I shall certainly give it some thought, though traditionally, the nominator and candidate have to have some form of positive relationship. I hardly think pithy banter counts.

As a potential candidate, could you as my potential nominator enlighten me as to what it is that the committee actually do?