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Thread: G A G B Guidelines

  1. #1
    moote01 Guest

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    I have been informed from GC.com, that the guidelies published on this website do not hold any weight in their eyes.

    The guideline you quoted, "no cache should be placed in such a way as to risk damage or disturbance to any Site of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI) or Scheduled Ancient Monument (SAM)" Is not a Groundspeak, Inc. guideline and therefore does not apply to caches listed on Geocaching.com.
    Is this correct? Can we place caches in areas such as drystone walls, SAMs, SSSIs etc? Is this just plain stupid, that GC.com do not recognise local rules, many of which are produced by statute.

    Moote

  2. #2

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    I believe this question has been answered several times by the local reviewers.

    It is a question for them please take it there.

  3. #3
    moote01 Guest

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    I have previously sought permission to post topics like this in these forums.

    It is an issue which affects the GAGB, as it is the guidelines which the GAGB stand for that are being ignored, for a set of American rules.

    If you feel this topic is unsuitable for here then use your powers as a moderator of the forum and close it.

  4. #4

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    Sorry Moote not being baited. Post away mate.

  5. #5
    Lactodorum Guest

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    I don't normally post here but just to allay any fears GAGB members may have from Moote's selective quotation. The full text of the answer received from groundspeak was:

    I have great faith in our reviewers and have spoken to them regarding
    this issue. The guideline you quoted, "no cache should be placed in such
    a way as to risk damage or disturbance to any Site of Special Scientific
    Interest (SSSI) or Scheduled Ancient Monument (SAM)" Is not a
    Groundspeak, Inc. guideline and therefore does not apply to caches
    listed on Geocaching.com. The people in charge of the cave have issued
    the following which is more than enough permission needed for the cave.
    I would like to remind people that local reviewers DO take into account local issues. That's all I want to say on the matter here.

  6. #6

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    Gc.com UK reviewers aren't in any way bound by GAGB's guidelines - they're required to work to gc.com's guidelines. There seems to be some confusion over this in the Groundspeak forums on occasion.

    But there is a degree of flexibility, and as Lac says, they do take account of local issues. Also, there are situations where a landowner agreement requires that caches placed on their land must meet GAGB guidelines. If one of them doesn't, then technically at least, it doesn't have landowner permission. I know our reviewers take matters like that into consideration too.
    ​​Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light. (Dylan Thomas)​


  7. #7
    MCL Guest

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    Originally posted by moote01@May 21 2006, 12:55 PM
    I have been informed from GC.com, that the guidelies published on this website do not hold any weight in their eyes.

    Is this correct? Can we place caches in areas such as drystone walls, SAMs, SSSIs etc? Is this just plain stupid, that GC.com do not recognise local rules, many of which are produced by statute.

    Moote
    I'm surprised the question was asked in the first place. To add to what Bill has said above, people often forget that the guidelines are only guidelines and not rules (since they can't be enforced on cachers in general), and there is no reason why the US-based GC.com should be held to account over them. They never published them, and never negotiated them, and have their own guidelines anyway.

    When the question is posed as to whether "we" can place caches in certain areas, then the answer is no "we" shouldn't be doing that because as members of GAGB we are supposed to be upholding the guidelines of the GAGB. It's one of the things we agree when we come on board. But that has nothing to do with what non GAGB cachers may do or be allowed to do. Sure it would be nice if they stuck to them, and I'm sure many do, but you can't lay down the iron rod of law to people who have not agreed and aren't members. And that of course includes all the US owners of GC.com....

    The guidelines that happen to be backed up by statute are a different matter slightly, and of course to place things in legally restricted areas is plainly not allowed. However, even in this case, it is not GC.com's responsibility to enforce UK law. That's the job of the police. So once again the answer is that GC has nothing to say but "its not our call, folks!"

  8. #8
    nobbynobbs Guest

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    :wacko: :wacko: :wacko: :wacko:

  9. #9
    moote01 Guest

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    Originally posted by MCL+May 22 2006, 02:37 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (MCL @ May 22 2006, 02:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-moote01@May 21 2006, 12:55 PM
    I have been informed from GC.com, that the guidelies published on this website do not hold any weight in their eyes.

    Is this correct? Can we place caches in areas such as drystone walls, SAMs, SSSIs etc? Is this just plain stupid, that GC.com do not recognise local rules, many of which are produced by statute.

    Moote
    I&#39;m surprised the question was asked in the first place. To add to what Bill has said above, people often forget that the guidelines are only guidelines and not rules (since they can&#39;t be enforced on cachers in general), and there is no reason why the US-based GC.com should be held to account over them. They never published them, and never negotiated them, and have their own guidelines anyway.

    When the question is posed as to whether "we" can place caches in certain areas, then the answer is no "we" shouldn&#39;t be doing that because as members of GAGB we are supposed to be upholding the guidelines of the GAGB. It&#39;s one of the things we agree when we come on board. But that has nothing to do with what non GAGB cachers may do or be allowed to do. Sure it would be nice if they stuck to them, and I&#39;m sure many do, but you can&#39;t lay down the iron rod of law to people who have not agreed and aren&#39;t members. And that of course includes all the US owners of GC.com....

    The guidelines that happen to be backed up by statute are a different matter slightly, and of course to place things in legally restricted areas is plainly not allowed. However, even in this case, it is not GC.com&#39;s responsibility to enforce UK law. That&#39;s the job of the police. So once again the answer is that GC has nothing to say but "its not our call, folks&#33;" [/b][/quote]
    My point here is that if people just places caches where they wish, be they members of the GAGB or not, then the day will come that a lot of the good work which is put into negotiation will fall flat on it face, and landowners could and might prosecute cachers for dumping litter (Geocache).

    Is this a situation that we want to get into? No, that is why we have Guidelines, if these are not seen to be being adhered to, then the good work you are doing will be penalized. This will not be good for the game.

    The cache in question which Lactodorum refers is not actually on the landowners property, it is underground and belongs to other parties, just in the same way that you do not own the coal under your house. The actual agreement is for passage across the land to the entrance

    The access information was taken from a Caving based website and was spacifically arranged for cavers who incidentally now usually have to prove that they have 3rd party public liability insurance.

    So where are we at here? It looks like people are assuming far too much, a negotiation between the BCA (and it&#39;s relevant local bodies) can&#39;t be hijacked by any other group of individuals. The high standards set by these bodies should also be looked at, caves normally have specific conservation issues, this cave is one of these places, it is included in the Castleton SSSI and as such is of important, for people to allow the littering of this cave with geocaches in such an area is crass irresponsible and uncaring.

    Do we want bodies like the Forestry Commission, English Nature, and Local and Regional Authorities to see that many just do not care about good practices, the signal this cache sends out is that we are not bothered about conservation and negotiation.

    But if all the Guidelines are, are Guidelines, then rip them up and start again as you really need to negotiate with GC.com to set a standard that reflects the UK and UK conservation. Without this you are on a road to caches littering some of the most sacred places in the UK.

  10. #10
    The Hokesters Guest

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    Am I being dim? Is it not for the reviewers to decide at the end of the day?

  11. #11
    moote01 Guest

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    Originally posted by The Hokesters@May 22 2006, 12:00 PM
    Am I being dim? Is it not for the reviewers to decide at the end of the day?
    But the reviewers don&#39;t know about issues of Cave conservation. They see it as a Game, but it is a game that could be terminated by landowners if we act irresponsibly. See this thread as to what is happening

  12. #12

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    HERE WE GO AGAIN.&#33;&#33;&#33;

  13. #13
    moote01 Guest

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    Originally posted by The Wobbly Club@May 22 2006, 02:40 PM
    HERE WE GO AGAIN.&#33;&#33;&#33;
    Lets not travel off in another direction.

  14. #14

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    When the question is posed as to whether "we" can place caches in certain areas, then the answer is no "we" shouldn&#39;t be doing that because as members of GAGB we are supposed to be upholding the guidelines of the GAGB. It&#39;s one of the things we agree when we come on board. But that has nothing to do with what non GAGB cachers may do or be allowed to do. Sure it would be nice if they stuck to them, and I&#39;m sure many do, but you can&#39;t lay down the iron rod of law to people who have not agreed and aren&#39;t members.
    If landowners give permission for a cache or caches to be placed on their land on the understanding that G.A.G.B.guidelines are upheld are non G.A.G.B. members excluded from the landowners requirements ?
    We like Greens

  15. #15

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    t.a. folk wrote:
    If landowners give permission for a cache or caches to be placed on their land on the understanding that G.A.G.B.guidelines are upheld are non G.A.G.B. members excluded from the landowners requirements ?
    No. If a landowner stipulates that caches placed on their land must meet certain requirements, then those requirements apply to anyone placing a cache there.
    ​​Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light. (Dylan Thomas)​


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