If you're in negotiation with a landowner, and you'd like to make it known to avoid anyone treading on your toes with them, post the details in this thread.
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Bill
If you're in negotiation with a landowner, and you'd like to make it known to avoid anyone treading on your toes with them, post the details in this thread.
---
Bill
I am currently 'negotiating' with personnel at Eastleigh Borough Council about placing caches in several of their Countryside sites, since I would rather start by having their permission instead of just planting some!
So far hitting some walls (mainly they say they don't know about geocaching, they don't know what the Council's policy on geocaching is, etc etc). I hope that when its done with, they will be cacher-friendy councillors and also have a better awareness of the scale of the activity.
(and also, the fact that there are already lots of caches within their sites, something which seems to have escaped them so far...)
Kathy
I'm making good progress with the Muiravonside Country Park in central Scotland. Owned by the Falkirk Council, the park is run by the Head Ranger with whom I established comms a couple of months ago.
He's been exceptionally busy and has had to prioritise his time and understandably my geocaching request is not very high on his priority list. Understanding this, I've taken the softlee softlee approach and have limited my 'nagging' requests to a maximum of one email per month.
Today I had a face to face chat with him. He's pro-geocaching and favourably disposed towards us. I did have to overcome his misapprehension that caches are "buried". I explained our rule about never digging with any implement in either placing or hunting a cache and I mentioned the prohibition against using any animal runs hides or burrows.
He requested that I include a sentence on any cachepage declaring that under the wildlife conservation legislation which covers this protected area it is the Law that forbids the use of any digging implement or disturbing wildflowers or other wildlife.
One problem which I've addressed and resolved is that there had been, for a couple of years or more, an illicit cache within the Park. The illegality of that cache was compounded by the fact that the path which it was closest to was subsequently closed and barricaded for public safety as the water erosion had made the path unmaintainable. I recovered the cache a couple of months ago. It was waterlogged and comprehensively ruined by mildew, so its replacement will be a nice new waterprrof job.
I've got two or three very monor details to deal with before making the two caches live, but I expect to complete by the end of January.
The Head Ranger has my caching profile contact details, as well as my personal email and home address and telephone number. By arrangement, we've agreed that I am his point of contact in the event of any matters arising from either of the two proposed caches in the park. Placement of further caches within the property, subject to the usual 0.1mile GC.com rule, will be a simple matter of informing the Ranger of the proposed location.
This permission, which is now 99% complete, is only for the Muiravonside Countrypark and does not extend to other properties owned and operated by Falkirk Council, but I'm confident that after a few months of trouble-free geocaching we will be well placed to approach the relevant Rangers in other Council properties with a good reference from this Head Ranger.
Update on my approach to Eastleigh Borough Council reference placing caches on their managed sites:
Had an email from them a few days ago giving me the go ahead for cache placement! Hurrah! Their proviso was that they are placed according to Hampshire County Council guidelines (which I stated would be the case when I initially asked for their approval) and that I inform them of the exact location and what the cache looks like.
Another bonus of this was they said they would let the countryside officers/rangers know so that if the cache was discovered away from its proper location they would return it to position. Sounds like a very positive attitude and I think its fair to say they seem to be geo-friendly now
That's good news... very considerate of them, too Well done on your efforts!
I am in negotiation with the BMC [ British Mountaineering Council] based Manchester
What are you approaching them about? While I can understand that it is always good for different outdoor organisations to have a good relationship, the BMC are not landowners. Just was wondering if you could clarify?Originally posted by Cache U Nutter@Feb 27 2007, 09:56 AM
I am in negotiation with the BMC [ British Mountaineering Council] based Manchester
The BMC are land owners, i.e Harrisons, Stone farm etc.
They are also probably one of the major players in negotiating access rights in the U.K to areas of upland Britain, Coastal[ cliff sites]and areas of rock outcrops.
As a friend of their former National access officer I am well aware of the problems that are faced in trying to achieve access to these areas. Given the number of climbers and mountaineers/ fellwalkers in this country [ many, many times more than the current number of Geocachers] it would be prudent to learn from and cooperate with them to help our own needs. [[I also want to place caches on their land!!]
As a long time mountaineer myself with many contacts in the fraternity that is why I am talking to them.
excellent news. good luck. with any luck you'll be able to appraoch the landowners that have agreements with them and piggy back caching agreements. fingers crossed. not too many mountains down in hampshire though so it'll have to wait for a trip before i can make use of it!!
Good point that about piggy backing on agreements, but a long way off yet! also not sure how individual land owners would feel about that ?
my thought were that if they have a greed to the climbers then they would possibly be open to an approach from cachers, especially when CITO is explained and so on.
by piggy backing i meant that if they have certain conditions already agreed then they may be happy for the same conditions to be applied to us, obviously only after asking them.
keep us informed and let us know if you need help.
Will certainly keep you updated, will see what I can do
contacting the hampshire wildlife trust to try and get a general agreement accross all their sites.
Here are the email replies I received following a request to place a cache on some NT land nearby. (Nearby being North Cornwall)
Dear Jan,
Your faxed letter of 26 March requesting consent to place a geocache on National Trust land between Minster Church and the Valency valley has been passed to me.
I am sorry that it has taken a little time to come back to you, but since receiving your request I have been making enquiries within the Trust about our experience of the impact of geocahes elsewhere. I am sorry to say that on other sites where these have been allowed the Trust has experienced considerable difficulties. In one case a property was extensively damaged by digging as people tried to find the geocahe and in others there have been significant trampling and erosion problems in the area around the geocahe location.
The site you suggest could easily be damaged if similar problems were experienced here and I am sorry to say therefore that we can not give permission for the geocache to be placed. I realise that this will be a disappointment and appreciate that the majority of people seeking out the geocache would act carefully and responsibly but, as I am sure you will understand, our priority must be to avoid damage to the site. I hope you will be successful in finding an alternative location.
Kind regards,
Ian Kemp.
Property Manager, North Cornwall.
-------------------------
From me:
I understand The Trust's position. Can you confirm if this would be the case for any NT land across Cornwall or would each location be considered independently upon request?
------------------------
Jan,
With the Geocahe being a relatively new feature, I don't think we have a clear position statement that covers the whole of the Trust yet. However, I am going to a meeting on Friday where I will raise this with the other countryside managers in Devon and Cornwall. I will hopefully be able to update you then.
Ian-----------------------
I'll let you know what the final outcome is. Hopefully I can at least negotiate a trial period at one location so that the office can have something local to base their decission on.
Hi all just to let you know I am currntly in negotiations with the Borough of Poole to try to get them to agree to us placing geocaches on land under their durestriction!
I had a positive reply today via e-mail saying that they'd have to have a meeting about it and would get back to me in approx two weeks!
I have sent
-printouts of very good local caches
-copies of agreements rached with Hampshire
-copies of agreements wioth New Forest
-copy of CITO event in Oxford - also showing how well it was attended and the 'mess' they cleared out!
- a covering letter with web addreses for Gagb, Geocaching.com and Hampshire Council
- a list of possible locations for caches including a newly refurbished Poole Park!
- pictures of the different cache containers we use from micro to ammo
I have also offered to take them out Geocaching if they wish! Will have to pick some great urban ones!
Does anyone know of any agreement with Bournemouth Council As I note there are a lot in that vicinity
Any advice/support would be really appreciated
Many thanks
Manda
I've been away from geocaching for quite some time, mainly because of a serious back problem, but, after an operation just before Christmas, my mobility has been improving and I'm trying to make a gradual comeback! As a result of my wanting to place a cache on land owned and maintained by Ringwood Town Council, I've contacted the Clerk (who I happen to know from my full-time working days) with a view to getting permission for my cache and a general agreement of some kind, perhaps based on the one with Hampshire County Council. He's back from quite a long holiday on Monday, though, and probably won't be able to get back to me for a week or so. I'll keep you informed of progress.
Last edited by LoisInTheForest; 24th April 2009 at 08:12 PM.
Good luck with that. You know my number
Thanks! I'll post info up as soon as I get a response to my e-mail.
It only takes one drink to get me drunk, but I can never remember if it was the thirteenth or fourteenth.
I have started communications with the RSPB and will report back if/when I receive a reply. Fingers crossed.
I can only please one person a day. Today is not your day, tomorrow is not looking good either.
Hi
I am currently negotiating with the National Trust about placing a cache in the above park, which is also Shirehampton Golf Club.
At the moment they are being very helpful.
There is already a cache on this land, but i somehow think it has not had official approval as it seems to have been relocated there off "private" (sic) land !
:cheers:
John B
Good news - Ringwood Town Council have agreed to allow caching on their land along the lines of the Hampshire County Council agreement. Their Clerk will get in touch with a view to formalising this, so what would you like me to do?
It only takes one drink to get me drunk, but I can never remember if it was the thirteenth or fourteenth.
Congratulations - I'm really pleased to hear that they're being so positive!
An agreement on the lines of the HCC one sounds good - just go ahead, and let us know when it's signed and sealed and we'll add it to the GLAD.
If you need any specific advice or assistance feel free to PM me.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light. (Dylan Thomas)
Have just received a follow up reply from the RSPB:
Oh well, I triedThank you for your email of 4 May. We are sorry that it has taken so long for us to get back to you. Your request was referred to the Wales Reserves Management Team so that they could discuss the geo-caching in the wider context of all Welsh RSPB reserves.
Although the RSPB supports outdoor pursuits that are compatible with our nature conservation aims we have concerns about disturbance to wildlife and potential health and safety issues. Therefore we feel that we have to refuse permission for you to put a geo-cach at the reserve.
We are sorry for this disappointment.
Yours sincerely
David Anning
Mid and South Wales Woodlands and Heathlands Sites Manager
I can only please one person a day. Today is not your day, tomorrow is not looking good either.
Ooh! *runs over to Tesco Express to buy New Milton Advertiser*
It only takes one drink to get me drunk, but I can never remember if it was the thirteenth or fourteenth.
Hi, I have just got permission to hide a geocache in a park in Poole from the leisure and parks office, with the proviso that I do not place it near park boundaries and that I place it without causing any damage to the surroundings.
However when asking Bournemouth Council about placing one on kinson common, they stated that Bournemouth Council policy was that Geocaches were not allowed on any open areas or parks although there are already clearly hundreds already placed. The reason for this was that they found some caches dug in and that police could not distinguish between suspicious activity and that of geocachers?! I can sort of understand but it seems a bit unfair on all the impecable attitudes of cachers out there.
such is the problem when people don't bother to ask. turns councils against the hobby.
Wonder on definition of dug in.
We,ve found nearly all the many caches ever hidden in Bournemouth(except the P.M. caches ) and never needed a spade or trowel .
We like Greens
Wonder if it is the "dug in " issue that is the real problem ,or incidents like the below logged on one of the Bournemouth caches .
"Had a go at this one with( name removed by us ) but our search was cut short by the Police turning up in a riot van to see what we were doing!
One of them knew about geocaching and we explained it to the others. Hopefully we will have a few more muggle coppers converted to Geo-Coppers :-"
We like Greens
Nobbynobbs often advises going to the Rangers in the first instance.
GC1A2AA , a physical cache on open area at Hengistbury Head, in Bournemouth has permission from the following
"Thanks to everyone at the Ranger's Office, Hengistbury Head, Bournemouth, for their co-operation in allowing this cache to be placed."
We like Greens
I am just opening negotiations with Bristol Council regarding permission for Clifton Downs and hopefully other Bristol parks will follow.
If anyone has made contact previously or currently negotiating with Bristol Council could they please let me know.
I got a generic permission from the Bristol Council's Blaise Castle and Kingsweston Estate in the early days of planning last year's Mega (we did consider a location nearby for the Mega).
The contact details are in GLAD, you could see how the Ranger feels about caching now and he may be a useful reference.
Caching since 2001
Founder member of GAGB (2003)
Committee (2003-2013)
Chair of GAGB (2010-2012)
Negotiator of 18 Landowner Agreements
GAGB Friend
For some time, the placement of caches in Cuerden Valley Park in Lancashire, near Chorley, was not permitted. Since I became a trustee of the Charitable Trust that owns and manages the park, I have explained to the Park Manager about geocaching, and the ban has been lifted. There remains a need to consult with the manager because there are a few sensitive sites. But the reality is that I've placed a good series of caches around the park, which appear to have been enjoyed by everyone who visits. The Park website may still say that geocaching is not permitted, but that needs changing.
Just for the record, I have obtained consent from the John Muir Trust, who own the entire Strathaird peninsula on the Isle of Skye, to place caches. I already have caches on Skye, to which I am compelled to resort on frequent occasions during the year, and intend to place more early in December, while maintaining existing caches. Here's what the Trust have to say:
Thanks for your enquiry with reference to geocaching. We the John Muir Trust do not have a policy on it, but having read up on it, it appears a worthwhile activity and done by sensible people, with regard to the environment. You have our permission to carry out the activity on our estate at Strathaird. If there are any problems this will be reviewed at a later date.
The likelihood is that if anyone else finds the Trust as landowners, then here is a nice precedent to use - we are, after all, sensible people, like the man says.
I've been called a few things in my time, but sensible??? :
Good work!
I have a Geocaching problem...
Work gets in the way!
* Cache Walker -Caching by byway, not highway! CacheWalker.co.uk
Walking and Caching in Warwickshire, Worcestershire, Gloucestershire areas
The island of Ulva is adjacent to the Isle of Mull. I've been up there quite a lot recently in connection with work, and established a good relationship with the Laird of Ulva, who has encouraged me/given me permission to place caches on the island. So, I set ten caches to celebrate 10 years, and they seem to have been well received.
So, the island of Ulva landowner was an easy conquest...but then he's a skier and mountaineer, too, so maybe it wasn't that difficult.
PS If you're thinking of doing all ten caches on the island, you'll need a full day and the legs for a very long walk...but it's do-able.
Hello again,
I have received a one line email from Rushmoor's Parks Development Manager, via his secretary, after sending him an email very much like The Wombles permissions letter:
I am content, there appears no detriment to the landowner.
He appears to be a man of few words. But I am content as well, for it looks like we can now place caches with Rushmoor borough's approval!
:socool:
Best to you all!
I applied for permission from Mansfield District Council (back in April) and have received a standard e-mail response saying that the matter is closed (but no indication whether that means permission was granted or not). I'll try and re-open it, as my queries were met with similar meaningless replies.
More recently, I applied to Natural England about a cache in an SSSI. After a month, I've received an acknowledgement of receipt and an assurance that it's been passed to the relevant local office.
I'm regarding both as "on-going"; even though I've now given up with these caches, I hope to get permission and then either make another placement or pass the permission on to another cacher to use.
Since the time of this first Rushmoor Borough Council (RBC) tentative permission, the RBC Legal Team has become involved in my geocaching permissions queries. It slowed down the placement of our caches considerably, but we finally got an answer.
The RBC Legal Team has also given permission to place and hunt caches on RBC land, but NO formal agreement exists with them and is unlikely to exist in the near future.
PLEASE do not bring geocaching into disrepute by doing anything untoward while geocaching on RBC land. PLEASE follow the well-known geocaching guidelines and PLEASE do not cache on conservation areas or cause undue stress around park areas in RBC.
So sorry to be preachy, but RBC has made it clear to me that they will not hesitate to rescind caching permissions if they find there are any complaints about our activities or if cachers cause any perceived problems on RBC land.
If anyone has any further questions about caching on RBC land, please send me a message, I'm happy to help out!
Thanks and Happy Caching!
Kim of Luna's Team
I adopted a cache on Chosen hill recently due to it needing a new container and log book. I contacted the Wildlife Trust as it lies in one of their reserves and received this reply:
I am sorry but we will not give permission for geocaches to be placed on our reserve.
This is an extract from our policy on non-wildlife related activities on Nature Reserves:
'Given the unique function of nature reserves there is a general presumption against any other activity taking place on nature reserves which is not linked to the overarching objectives of conservation, education, research and quiet enjoyment of the countryside. The Trust has decided, therefore, that activities not in accordance with the purpose of reserves will not normally be permitted.'
I have checked this with one of our Directors who has agreed that we will not allow this.
There are other parts of Chosen Hill which do not belong to the Trust so maybe you can get permission to place geocaches on these areas.
I have archived the cache in question (it was placed in 2004 and there is some wear on the slope by it which could be put down to geocaching over the years). However as this reads like a blanket ban I did reply speaking up for the educational and informative aspects of geocaching and suggested another idea where a path might be highlighted and plants identified to get coordinates for a hide elsewhere.
Should I be asking whether this affects all geocaches on GWT reserves?
Is there anything else I should be asking/ saying?
I'm in negotiation with the Macleod Estate on the Isle of Skye, and with the Scottish Government, who own much of the Trotternish ridge there.
Negotiations have already been completed with Forestry Commission, Skye and John Muir Trust.
Isn't it amazing what you don't see, when you don't know what you're looking for?
The past is history; the future is a story yet to be told; write it well.
I'm not in negotiation, but thought it might be useful to make public the contact details for The Lord of the Manor of Rochdale, not too sure of the boundary of his land (and I've looked), but rain and whitespace are amongst those caches on the land, which is also SSSI.
The contact for his agent is andrew@crossley-estates.co.uk and he seems ok with giving the permission when asked.
Details of my negotiations to date:
Broxtowe Borough Council - agreement formalised in line with a Geocaching policy that mirrors our own. GLAD being updated.
Newark & Sherwood DC - agreement in progress, Geocaches allowed with notification.
Notts County Council - as above (N & S DC), considering a Geocaching policy which they may require GAGB assistance in writing.
Shropshire Wildlife Trust - contact made, happy for current Geocaches and agreement to remain, consent still valid.
Failures are finger posts on the road to achievement.
I have approached Buccleuch Estates (large landowners in Southern Scotland). Any response will be posted here.
Good caching
no idea about bournemouth, fingers crossed that an agreement was made........
best way would be to contact a few owners first and see what they say.
re the agreement.... do not push the new forest agreement, it is a little restrictive, better one is the hampshire county council.
good work.
I'm about to start asking Waverley Borough Council about placing a cache on their land. There is a Countryside Ranger that deals specifically with the area I wish to place a cache so I will contact him first but there is a good chance i'll get referred to somebody at Waverley or maybe even Surrey County Council.
I've not seen any previous agreements or attempted negociations but there are plenty of caches around, I'm worried that by asking for permission it might draw attention to these other caches I shall try asking some of these cachers if they have permission and if so go from there but i'm very sure they are not all permitted caches!
Hope this doesn't all backfire, i'll have the rest of the Surrey cachers on my back
We,ve found what we think could be a possible hidey hole in a tree near Boscombe Overcliff Gardens (Bournemouth )
but so far have chickened out of seeking permission from Bournemouth Parks Department to place a cache for the reasons stated above in previous two postings :unsure:
We like Greens