'mega' Flashmob Event?

[fraggle69]

I'd be up for organising one of hese suckerz. It would have to be fancy dress though.
I've thought about how to do it and I think it can be done.

Do you think groundspeak would allow it?

[studlyone]

Its certainly an intersting concept, whether or not they'd go for it would be another matter. They sent a rep to the UK Mega Event to confirm that we got over 500. There have been geocaching flash mobs in the past (Ian fondly remembers the Birmingham one) so a mega event is just something bigger.
Maybe one of our current or ex reviewers could shed some light on the rule nuances regarding a Mega Event and whether it would be achievable.

[sTeamTraen]

They sent a rep to the UK Mega Event to confirm that we got over 500.

I don't think that's correct. As far as I know, I was the only person representing Groundspeak there, and "checking that 500 people turn up" was not something I was asked to do. I don't know if they dropped a mail to Deceangi afterwards, but I would guess not. AFAIK, Mega status is granted on trust, after you've convinced Groundspeak that it's reasonably likely to happen. It took Robin a couple of months at least to get the Harrogate event a Mega icon, and he had a committee, years of solid event organising experience, and all the UK volunteers right behind him. There are a lot of "Mega wannabes" who start off with big hopes and don't get close to the required number of attendees, so this attitude is understandable. (Having 250 Will Attend logs, or however many it was, in the first week certainly helps.)


Maybe one of our current or ex reviewers could shed some light on the rule nuances regarding a Mega Event and whether it would be achievable.

For a start if you want to list a Mega Event it probably has to be listed at least six months in advance. That means that it will become public knowledge, which means that the local council and police will be interested. 500 people in the same place at one time is already a public order issue, even if they're all just reading the Bible.

Given all the moaning which there was about travelling X hundred miles to Harrogate, I wish you good luck in identifying a location that 500 people are prepared to travel to, at £1.25 and up for a litre of fuel, for 15 minutes and one smiley. I think that most of the UK cachers who really really really wanted the Mega icon and were prepared to put a dent in their budget to get it, probably already did so last weekend.

You could maybe try and tack it on to another Mega Event, but then we're starting to get into "gratuitous smileys". There's already quite a lot of discussion as to what constitutes a real "event" among the various satellite activities that occur at a Mega. Plus, with "only" 900 people coming to the Mega, would you actually have got around 60% of them to synchronise themselves at the same spot?

My guess (aka: my sincere hope!) is that Groundspeak would politely turn it down on the basis that they don't want the Mega Event "brand" to become devalued. But then probably the majority of reviewers (well, me and another one that I know of :)) feel that any flash mob event devalues regular Events, and yet when one was held in Seattle, Jeremy and several other lackeys went along and said they enjoyed it...

[Brenin Tegeingl]

Being brutally and totally honest, I make that at least 3 Reviewers with the same opinion of Flash Mobs. A event is about socialising, making new and strengthening existing Friendships. One of the biggest complaints about this years Mega, was that people did not get chance to meet people they wanted to.

The definition of a Flash mob is a event at which people turn up at a specific time and location, and Mob for the specific period before going their seperate ways. Going to a pub afterwards to have a chat, means that no actual Flash Mob Event took place.

I've had someone try and submit a Flash Mob event followed by a Pub event. After discussing things with my former colleagues, we came to the conclusion that it was one single event not 2 separate stand alone ones.

I publish Flash Mob Events because Groundspeak allows them, not because I believe they have any merit. And whilst I will support any genuine Mega event in the UK. I will not support any attempt at a Mega Flash Mob event, and see all the hard work and personal risk that this years and next year committee put into the Mega made into a joke.

Deci

[studlyone]

I guess that puts that one to bed then.

[Mrs Blorenge]

I hope the replies haven't depressed you too much, fraggle69 - It looks like the scenario of 500+ cachers dressed as pirates and descending on an unsuspecting Bristol/Swindon/Glastonbury is unlikely to come to fruition.

I have actually attended one of the FlashMob Events - I went up for the one at the London Eye and nearly got "sent to Coventry" ;) in Chat because I was prepared to defend the whole FlashMob concept. In fact somebody there described it as a rank idea. (I think that was the word they used...) I decided to go along because I wanted to say that I had actually been to one, rather than cast scorn on the whole idea without even trying one for size. It was a "different" experience, rather like the micro equivalent of the usual type of Event. Afterwards everyone dispersed in different directions and about 10 of us (including some visiting American geocachers) ended up getting steadily chilled :cheers: (in every sense of the word) at pavement tables outside a Whitehall pub. Would I attend another one? Yes, probably, if it was within 50 miles of me. But I suspect the whole idea of FlashMob events may be a passing fad. (Did I hear cheering from somewhere in the back stalls then? :rolleyes: )

I still keep an eye on the whole FlashMob scene though and I'm a fully registered member of http://improveverywhere.ning.com/ The Urban Prankster site.

[studlyone]

The two esteened reveiwers brought up some very valid points as well as some that I don't agree on (but thats my own opinion). However after reading their posts their arguments do ring true and their experience in this sort of things is obvious and to be treated with high regard.

Whilst I loved the flash mob event I attended, as with others the organiser was derided for attempting to organise it but it did work and it worked well.

It might not be as succesfull on a larger scale due to logistical reasons, distance and its limited duration. For starters the chance of finding 500 nutters mad enough to travel for 15 minutes of anarchy are slim.

So how about a Mini-Mega Event category then :ph34r: LOL :)

[Jaz666]

I've never been a supporter of Flashmob events, but the "open to all" 30 minute meet at the start of the Mega Fox Hunt accidentally turned into one. Everyone was milling around until I plonked down a chair on the exact coords of the event listing, then chaos ensued.

When the logs stop coming in I'll have an accurate figure, but there were over 200 heads there!

[Happy Humphrey]

I still keep an eye on the whole FlashMob scene though and I'm a fully registered member of http://improveverywhere.ning.com/ The Urban Prankster site.
I haven't seen that before - looks great!:p
I like the FlashMob Event concept actually. Although I agree that a Mega probably won't be possible, there's a place for different types of event and I don't think it always has to be the type that would appeal to Dave (for instance).

[Maple Leaf]

I've never been a supporter of Flashmob events, but the "open to all" 30 minute meet at the start of the Mega Fox Hunt accidentally turned into one. Everyone was milling around until I plonked down a chair on the exact coords of the event listing, then chaos ensued.

When the logs stop coming in I'll have an accurate figure, but there were over 200 heads there!

But I expect that was coz a lot of people went to get an easy 5/5 (although I hadn't realised that it was a 5/5 until some people in the car park mentioned that was why they were there)
Some of us worked for our 5/5 .... and thoroughly enjoyed it :)

[fraggle69]

Arr touched a nerve or two there.
Whilst the FME's pros/cons have already been discussed many times in the past I'll leave it there.
The question is 'will groundspeak support/allow such an event', I wasn't asking the reviewers permission or support as such? Is it my reviewers that put the proposal to groundspeak on my behalf, it seems unlikely they will be willing to in this instance. Does anyone have a contact for me at groundspeak.
If it's a 'no' that's fine, but unfair imo. If an event can be made into a mega, then surely a flashmob event can. Maybe it needs to be reclassified as a monster flashmob event rather than a mega with it's own icon or something, who knows!
I wasn't actually thinking pirates, I was hoping we could pretend to be part of a religious cult and make out like we were donating loads of money but infact we'd just be signing the log :)!
If anyone thinks we're taking the wee out of the hard work the mega event organisers put in, you can think what you like! Any event takes a degree of organisation and just because I want to do it without spending any money, then surely that's my choice. If every cache event were the same we'd soon get bored.

Free the flasher within

[Brenin Tegeingl]

I have posted to the Reviewers forum asking if Groundspeak would be prepared to grant Mega Status to a Flash Mob Event. I will of course pass on any decision. And will follow any instructions issued by Groundspeak over such a event.

[fraggle69]

I appreciate that dude.
Even if it is agreed that's fine, I know I would still need to convince the local council its a good thing. I appreciate there are public order issues involved, so that would take a lot of negotiation on the organisers part.

[fraggle69]

Deci, what's the deal?
I appreciate you're not keen on FME's and understand you're not supportive of the need for them, but some feedback would be great. I appreaciate it's holiday season and times are busy, but you reviewers never rest, right?
Anyway, are the yanks worried we might beat them to a mega FME?

Love and Peace FraggleM:beer:

[Mongoose39uk]

Deci, what's the deal?
I appreciate you're not keen on FME's and understand you're not supportive of the need for them, but some feedback would be great. I appreaciate it's holiday season and times are busy, but you reviewers never rest, right?
Anyway, are the yanks worried we might beat them to a mega FME?

Love and Peace FraggleM:beer:

Not sure if you will get an answer of Deci till after the weekend unless you go to the Gathering in the Glens

[PopUpPirate]

I'm not a big fan of flash mob events, but I would support the attempt for one to go Mega. I certainly put enough time and effort into my little camping do, for instance... but I wouldn't see all the "hard work and personal risk" (Dave's words) being "made into a joke" (Dave's words) if someone set a flash mob around it :) It's a bit of a laugh, essentially, which is no bad thing :p

So, come Piratemania next year, feel free to submit a standalone Flash Mob around it, and you'll get my full support :p

[The Hornet]

I've never seen the point of Flash Mobs but each to their own. When I was a reviewer there was a fair bit of discussion as to whether they should qualify as a Geocaching Event and in the end it was decided that they should. So Flash Mob "Events" are now an established fact.

By extension and applying the following Groundspeak Definition of a Mega Event:

A Mega-Event cache is similar to an Event Cache but it is much larger. In order to qualify as a Mega Event, the event cache must be attended by 500+ people.
There is nothing to prevent a large Flash Mob becoming Mega. The ONLY requirement is that the event itself attracts 500+ people. That's assuming that Groundspeak abide by their own guidelines :ph34r:

[gazooks]

There is nothing to prevent a large Flash Mob becoming Mega. The ONLY requirement is that the event itself attracts 500+ people. That's assuming that Groundspeak abide by their own guidelines :ph34r:

Is a FME not restricted to 15 minutes ? (or can it be longer) - just thinking that to log 500 + people in 15 minutes is going some :ohmy::wacko:

[Brenin Tegeingl]

I posted the question immediately I offered to, in the Reviewers Forum. A good discussion took place. The reply from Groundspeak is that they will consider any request for a Flash Mob Event to be upgraded to a mega after the event has taken place.

Deci

[Brenin Tegeingl]

I'm not a big fan of flash mob events, but I would support the attempt for one to go Mega. I certainly put enough time and effort into my little camping do, for instance... but I wouldn't see all the "hard work and personal risk" (Dave's words) being "made into a joke" (Dave's words) if someone set a flash mob around it :) It's a bit of a laugh, essentially, which is no bad thing :p

So, come Piratemania next year, feel free to submit a standalone Flash Mob around it, and you'll get my full support :p

Ah but would a Flash Mob Event submission then stand on it's own merits :p

[fraggle69]

The reply from Groundspeak is that they will consider any request for a Flash Mob Event to be upgraded to a mega after the event has taken place.

Deci

So exactly the same as this years mega event, which was upgraded to a mega?

[Mrs Blorenge]

I think this year's MEGA event only got awarded the icon when the "will attend" logs (with indications of how many cachers were in each team) passed the critical 500 number. That was my impression anyway... I'm sure someone will clarify, if I'm wrong.

[studlyone]

I think this year's MEGA event only got awarded the icon when the "will attend" logs (with indications of how many cachers were in each team) passed the critical 500 number. That was my impression anyway... I'm sure someone will clarify, if I'm wrong.That way of doing things makes sense to me otherwise every tom, dick and harry would be organising "Mega Events". Once 500 cachers sign up to attend an event then that is the logical time to change it from a regular event to a Mega. I'd be very interested in attending a Flash Mob event on the off chance of it hitting Mega status. The number of 'will attend' logs would certainly give you an indication on whether or not it would be a goer. I went to the one organised by BikerMel and had a blast - 15 minutes of absolute mayhem.

[Brenin Tegeingl]

This years Mega was upgraded after a large amount of work on Robins part to persuade Groundspeak to upgrade it to Mega. It was not a simple process at all. Groundspeak have specifically stated that they will not upgrade a event to Mega status, to enable or incurage it to go Mega. The event or event owner must prove before hand that the Event is a Mega or after the event is over.

Deci

[PopUpPirate]

So reading what reviewers past and present have said:

To get an Event to go Mega, you get 500+ people to log a "Will Attend".

The event then goes Mega.

At the event, get the same people to sign the event log book. After the event, get the same people to post an "Attended" log.

The event then stays Mega.

That's good! The hard work is getting 500 people into action! The hard work shouldn't be having to wrangle with Groundspeak at the same time!

:)

[sTeamTraen]

The hard work shouldn't be having to wrangle with Groundspeak at the same time!

Groundspeak gets quite a few Mega-wannabe submissions. There was one last year in Germany where the whole event was called off a couple of months in advance due to "illness", which presumably - if true - meant that it was organised by one person and his or her non-gender-specific canine. So they can't just take "we'll have a thousand people, no problem" on trust.

That said, I would hope that if the 2009 UK event looks like being the only one of its size in the country, that it would be able to get its (provisional) Mega status confirmed earlier in the proceedings, now that the UK community has shown that it can mobilise a big crowd.

[Brenin Tegeingl]

My comments made on the 31/8/08 were made with the experience of working with UK cachers in the run up to a Mega Event. before that they were made from what we'd read/been told. Experience counts for more

Deci

[PopUpPirate]

I'm just trying to get to the bottom of how it all works, that's all :) I've nothing planned (honest!) but if I was to consider setting one, I'd like to think I would be able to do so, and that I would be supported in doing so :)

[The Cache Hoppers]

I'm just trying to get to the bottom of how it all works, that's all :) I've nothing planned (honest!) but if I was to consider setting one, I'd like to think I would be able to do so, and that I would be supported in doing so :)

Not by me you won't!!! :D:D:D In fact, given all the talk about how much hard work it is, I can't think why anyone would want to bother! That in itself has got to be offputting! Good luck Birdman :):):) (whispers to Birdman ... can we have it in Cornwall around the time of the Red Arrows display) :D:D:D (NB: this post is fully injected with humour and smilies)

[Madyokel]

Not by me you won't!!! :D:D:D In fact, given all the talk about how much hard work it is, I can't think why anyone would want to bother! That in itself has got to be offputting! Good luck Birdman :):):) (whispers to Birdman ... can we have it in Cornwall around the time of the Red Arrows display) :D:D:D (NB: this post is fully injected with humour and smilies)


Go on you know you want to really :D:D:D:D:D:D:D
If you decided to be that foolish then I might offer to help again :eek::eek::eek:

Lookout Bristol "I'm Back!" :beer::cheers::beer::cheers::beer::cheers:

[fraggle69]

So If I get 500ppl to turn up and sign the log, whilst doing something crazy it will be classed as a 'mega event'?
and
I may have to badger groundspeak to make it a mega event, even if all the criteria is met?

I wonder what a good date would be for a flashmob mega event and more importantly where should it be held! (thinks a little........)

[Jaz666]

So If I get 500ppl to turn up and sign the log, whilst doing something crazy it will be classed as a 'mega event'?
and
I may have to badger groundspeak to make it a mega event, even if all the criteria is met?

I wonder what a good date would be for a flashmob mega event and more importantly where should it be held! (thinks a little........)


Fraggle, in this "Social Networking" age it would be all too easy to get 500 people to attend a Flashmob by advertising it on Facebook etc - however to get an GC.com event listed, you would have to convince the reviewing team that the event being organised is mainly aimed at Geocachers.

I doubt Groundspeak would upgrade a regular event to a Mega if you held an event where 100 Geocachers turn up, and 401 "muggles".

JMHO.

[Mrs Blorenge]

I think that all the Flashmobs that have been organised so far (I don't mean just geocaching event Flashmobs) have taken place in fairly busy public areas. My impression is that the general public who happen to be in the area at the time should be left feeling rather bewildered (What the h3ll was that all about than? :confused: ) but totally unscathed by it all.
I suppose one could organise a Flashmob in some friendly farmer's field, well away from the general public but then it just wouldn't be the same, would it?
I would guess that Groundspeak would require evidence of serious planning for such an Event: Things like permission for use of the chosen site (wherever it was), correspondence with the local Police regarding public safety etc., what First Aid facilities would be available nearby, whether you would be able to provide enough tea and buns... There would be tea and buns, wouldn't there?
I'm not attending otherwise :p

[Wadders]

So If I get 500ppl to turn up and sign the log, whilst doing something crazy it will be classed as a 'mega event'?
and
I may have to badger groundspeak to make it a mega event, even if all the criteria is met?

I wonder what a good date would be for a flashmob mega event and more importantly where should it be held! (thinks a little........)

I am not sure about these FME,..........however (Wadders starts to wonder) if it could be incorporated in/around the next mega event:rolleyes:

[Happy Humphrey]

I doubt Groundspeak would upgrade a regular event to a Mega if you held an event where 100 Geocachers turn up, and 401 "muggles".

JMHO.
It would be worth doing just so you could have the only event cache to be archived because it'd been muggled...
:o

[Bill D (wwh)]

It would be worth doing just so you could have the only event cache to be archived because it'd been muggled...
:o
:D :D :D :D :D

[fraggle69]

I am not sure about these FME,..........however (Wadders starts to wonder) if it could be incorporated in/around the next mega event:rolleyes:

No, because it would not be a stand alone event and would be just riding off the 'main' mega event. No point and no challenge to it!

[Stuey]

No, because it would not be a stand alone event and would be just riding off the 'main' mega event. No point and no challenge to it!

It would be a stand alone event if it was in a different town on a different day, or even the same town on a different day. No difference to the 5 or so supporting events that were held on the days around this years Mega. I'm sure there's a way to do it should the Mega 09 committee decide to do one :)

[Brenin Tegeingl]

It would be a stand alone event if it was in a different town on a different day, or even the same town on a different day. No difference to the 5 or so supporting events that were held on the days around this years Mega. I'm sure there's a way to do it should the Mega 09 committee decide to do one :)

Actually it most probably wouldn't get Mega Status, Groundspeak have already refused Mega status to other events happening around a Mega event. Even though more than 500 people took part, as they decided as it was linked to the Mega event there was no justification for Mega status.

To gain Mega status a event has to stand on it's own merits as one, and not be piggy backed on to a existing Mega Event or even be supported by one No's wise due to the attendee's being in the area for another Mega event.

So the M1 Camping Event BBQ, would possibly have been refused Mega Status if over 500 had attended. Due to it being linked to the M1 event.



The UK Reviewers Teams assumption that you just need over 500 persons to attend to obtain Mega Status was wrong, as I've learned from working with the M1 committee, and have seen other issues raised with Groundspeak by other Reviewers.

See even Reviewers are on the learning curve as far Geocaching goes :eek::D:p

Deci

[keehotee]

The UK Reviewers Teams assumption that you just need over 500 persons to attend to obtain Mega Status was wrong, as I've learned from working with the M1 committee, and have seen other issues raised with Groundspeak by other Reviewers.

Deci


That varies somewhat from the official guidelines for Mega event status...


A regular Event Cache can be changed to a Mega-Event Cache after the fact, if the organizers demonstrate to Groundspeak that more than 500 people attended.

If GSP aren't going to abide by their own guidelines, what is the point in them even being published ????

[Mrs Blorenge]

That varies somewhat from the official guidelines for Mega event status...
If GSP aren't going to abide by their own guidelines, what is the point in them even being published ????

Hmmmm.

Just going back a couple of sentences within those Guidelines it says, "Among other requirements, the organizers must demonstrate a substantial likelihood that at least 500 people will attend the event. A Mega-Event Cache may be published up to one year prior to the event date. A regular Event Cache can be changed to a Mega-Event Cache after the fact, if the organizers demonstrate to Groundspeak that more than 500 people attended."

That's the "let-out clause" isn't it? - "Among other requirements."

I guess that means that if your regular event cache has over 500 people attending and it complies with the "other requirements" then it "can" be changed to a Mega (but not necessarily will be.)

It appears that Groundspeak consider each application for a Mega event on its individual merits, rather than simply 500+ geocachers together in one place, signing the log, Tally ho! and off you go!

That's just made me think - "I wonder if a Mega Fox Hunt would be do-able?" I understand that the original Fox Hunt covered a wide area of G.B.

Hmmmmmm... :)

[keehotee]

Hmmmm.

Just going back a couple of sentences within those Guidelines it says, "Among other requirements, the organizers must demonstrate a substantial likelihood that at least 500 people will attend the event. A Mega-Event Cache may be published up to one year prior to the event date. A regular Event Cache can be changed to a Mega-Event Cache after the fact, if the organizers demonstrate to Groundspeak that more than 500 people attended."

That's the "let-out clause" isn't it? - "Among other requirements."

I guess that means that if your regular event cache has over 500 people attending and it complies with the "other requirements" then it "can" be changed to a Mega (but not necessarily will be.)

It appears that Groundspeak consider each application for a Mega event on its individual merits, rather than simply 500+ geocachers together in one place, signing the log, Tally ho! and off you go!

That's just made me think - "I wonder if a Mega Fox Hunt would be do-able?" I understand that the original Fox Hunt covered a wide area of G.B.

Hmmmmmm... :)

But reading the text in full, the "other requirements" clause seems to apply for pre-planned mega's - and not event caches that attract 500 people and are then retrospectively given mega status.........


Among other requirements, the organizers must demonstrate a substantial likelihood that at least 500 people will attend the event. A Mega-Event Cache may be published up to one year prior to the event date.

What are the other requirements. Are they not listed because they're subject to change?

[The Cache Hoppers]

Even though more than 500 people took part, as they decided as it was linked to the Mega event there was no justification for Mega status.to it being linked to the M1 event.
Deci
Ooooh that's interesting .... which other of the events had 500+ attendees?? Do you mean this year's UK mega event supporting events?

[Jaz666]

Ooooh that's interesting .... which other of the events had 500+ attendees?? Do you mean this year's UK mega event supporting events?


None, but the Hog Roast came very close, I'm waiting for all the logs to finish coming in (and they are still dribbling in) before trying to total up the official number (as I have the Mega Event registration book, therefore I know how many were in each team who logged an attend on the other supporting events).

To answer MrsB.
For my Fox Hunt to be listed as an event, it needed an "open to all" aspect at a fixed time and point. The kind of Fox Hunt's Mark used to run, which went all over the country over a series of days, couldn't easily be listed as a gc.com event under the current guidelines.

And to stir the pot a bit, I believe it was this year's Geowoodstock which had supporting events upgraded to Mega status, suggesting Groundspeak do consider each on a case by case basis.

[Mrs Blorenge]

<snip>What are the other requirements. Are they not listed because they're subject to change?<snip>

Don't know. :dunno:

I surmise* that it's a negotiable situation! :D

In other words, "Send us your idea. We'll consider it. Then we'll tell you whether it's
"No. No way. Not ever!" or
"OK, that's heading along the right lines for the ususal style of Mega but we'd like you to..." or
"That's a really original concept. We like that one. It needs some further development. What about this aspect of it?..."

If I surmise* correctly then it means that Groundspeak are able to ensure that whatever sort of Mega Event is created it will meet a certain standard that they will be happy with.

[*Just my other way of saying "I've really no idea, just guessing here, but no doubt the UK Mega 2008 Committee would be better able to comment, given their recent experiences of creating a Mega event.] :socool:

[Mrs Blorenge]

Don't know. :dunno:
[*Just my other way of saying "I've really no idea, just guessing here, but no doubt the UK Mega 2008 Committee would be better able to comment, given their recent experiences of creating a Mega event.] :socool:

Well, talk of the Devil and Jaz666 appears! :D;)

[PopUpPirate]

I've no plans to set a Mega, but I've always got ideas ticking in my head, so if I was to consider planning a Mega in the future, would I get the full support of the UK reviewing team, bearing in mind I wouldn't be part of a "committee"? :)

[The Cache Hoppers]

I've no plans to set a Mega, but I've always got ideas ticking in my head, so if I was to consider planning a Mega in the future, would I get the full support of the UK reviewing team, bearing in mind I wouldn't be part of a "committee"? :)
Something I just found which might be of interest .... not just to you but anyone else considering setting a Mega Event (flash mob or otherwise, as part of a "committee" or not) ...

Quoting from the the cache listing guidelines ....

"Mega-Events are a special designation reserved for only the largest event caches – those which attract geocachers to attend on a regional, national or international level. To qualify as a Mega-Event, the organizers must obtain prior approval from Groundspeak – not from their volunteer cache reviewer. Among other requirements, the organizers must demonstrate a substantial likelihood that at least 500 people will attend the event. A Mega-Event Cache may be published up to one year prior to the event date. A regular Event Cache can be changed to a Mega-Event Cache after the fact, if the organizers demonstrate to Groundspeak that more than 500 people attended."

so ... if I understand that correctly, and I really cannot see any ambiguity within it, it has nothing to do with support or otherwise from the volunteer cache reviewer (due respect) - it is entirely down to Groundspeak. And you also do not have to get a sign up of 500 prior to the event because it can have its status changed after the event.



On a personal note, I say forget all the hassle about getting prior approval. Set a good event, concentrate on making it a truly wonderful occasion for everyone who chooses to attend. If it happens that over 500 people attend (as geocaching grows that is likely to happen without too much effort) apply for Mega status after the event. Do any of us event attendees (or organisers for that matter) really care whether it's a mega event or otherwise? I for one certainly couldn't care less.


NB: Apologies if I have repeated anything already said on this thread. I haven't read it all because I am getting really bored by it all now. I have set enough events with appreciative logs to feel I am qualified to say I know what makes a good event .... and (shouts very loudly) It's not about the numbers! :)

[Brenin Tegeingl]

Sorry Liane you seem to be stating that just getting 500 people to attend means the event automatically gets Mega status. As I've tried to point out the minimum requirement for Mega Status is 500 attendees, it is then at the discretion of Groundspeak to decide whether they will upgrade it or not.I have recently been made aware of a event with well over 500 Attendees which Groundspeak refused to upgrade as they stated it did not qualify.

To make it clear 500 attendees does not guarantee Mega Status. And before anyone says their changing the rules to suit themselves. Everyone who uses any Groundspeak project agrees to the TOU on signing up


Groundspeak may change, suspend, or discontinue any portion of the Site, or any service offered on the Site, at any time, including but not limited to any feature, database, application, or content. Groundspeak may also impose limits on certain features offered on the Site with or without notice.Which covers how they decide what events are granted Mega status.

[nobbynobbs]

I just wonder why we don't know what the other requirements are?

Surely it makes their life easier if they clearly state what the other requirements are so that they do not get loads of enquiries and arguments or disgruntled cachers?

Obviously we all know that a previous cache does not create a precedent but are there guidelines or are we all subject to individuals whims and moods as to what requirements are needed on any given day?

:dunno:

[The Cache Hoppers]

Sorry Liane you seem to be stating that just getting 500 people to attend means the event automatically gets Mega status.

No I wasn't stating that at all. I was quoting directly from the guidelines written by them. If there's any question about what it actually means, then you need to have a word with them. I was also making it clear that Groundspeak have the final say on the matter, not our local volunteer reviewers (no offence intended). :)

https://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#mega

[PopUpPirate]

...Everyone who uses any Groundspeak project agrees to the TOU on signing up.

Groundspeak may change, suspend, or discontinue any portion of the Site, or any service offered on the Site, at any time, including but not limited to any feature, database, application, or content. Groundspeak may also impose limits on certain features offered on the Site with or without notice.

Which covers how they decide what events are granted Mega status.

C'mon Dave, that's just the generic T&C there :p That's basically a Groundspeak catch-all for each and every cache that's ever submitted, and it doesn't apply specifically to a Mega. It could just as easily refer to a micro under a bench, a box in a park, an ammo can on the moors, etc etc! :)

I have to re-ask, if I was to consider planning a Mega in the future, would I get the full support of the UK reviewing team, bearing in mind I wouldn't be part of a "committee"? :)

[Brenin Tegeingl]

Yes the TOU's are generic which is why you can not read the Guidelines to state that Mega Events, by just meeting the 500 attendees level will guarantee a event will go Mega. Groundspeak decide on a case by case basis, the TOU's cover this and allows them to refuse to upgrade a a event to a Mega even if 1,000 + attended.

As I've pointed out I personally don't believe a Flash Mob Event is a Geocaching event. Especially as they were originally just a way of getting around the Groundspeak ban on 1 minute events. And how many Geocaching Flash Mob events are true to type? The idea behind such events is for people to suddenly congregate in a area for a specific time and then disperse. How many times do attendees of Geocaching ones then go on to socialise with each other.

So if you were planning any sort of Mega Flash Mob Event, then No you wouldn't get my support [I can't answer for any other Reviewer as I've not discused the issue with them]. But if you wereplanning a Mega event which had the aim of allowing the attendess to socialise with each other, then yes.

Deci

personal opinion now based on what I've heard from the members of the UK community. The UK community as a small community could realistically expect to only support one Mega Event per year. So I 'd suggest you put yourself forward to organise the 2011 M4 UK Mega Event. I'm sure people would agree the North West of England would be a suitable location for a Mega Event. But not near Blackpool, I don't have bottomless pockets :D:D.
I'm holidaying in the Bristol area in 2009, Scotland 2010 and the NW 2011? :applause:

[keehotee]

According to the full Event Cache guidelines copied below, the only three things to make a gathering a Geocaching event are:-
1. Organised by Geocachers.
2. Open to all geocachers.
3. Not set up for the sole purpose of drawing together cachers for the search of another cache or caches.
There is nothing in there to suggest that events have to have anything at all to do with socialising with other cachers, for any length of time at all.
If the personal opinions of TPTB are a deciding factor, they should also be listed.

So if a flash mob event of whatever size meets all the published guidelines, and doesn't infringe any other published rulings, how would Groundspeak justify refusing it?

p.s. I'm not personally a fan of flashmob events either - but I'm even less of a fan of hidden agendas and unwritten rules.





Event Caches

Event caches are gatherings that are open to all geocachers and which are organized by geocachers. While a music concert, a garage sale, an organized sporting event, a ham radio field day or a town’s fireworks display might be of interest to a large percentage of geocachers, such events are not suitable for submission as event caches because the organizers and the primary attendees are not geocachers. In addition, an event cache should not be set up for the sole purpose of drawing together cachers for an organized hunt of another cache or caches. Such group hunts are best organized using the forums or an email distribution list.
For geocaching events that involve several components, such as a full weekend event that includes a geocoin trading session, a seminar and a potluck dinner, multiple event listings may be submitted if they each stand on their own merits as events meeting the listing guidelines.
Event caches should be submitted no less than two weeks prior to the date of the event, so that potential attendees will have sufficient notice to make their plans. Events are generally published no more than three months prior to the date of the event, to avoid having the listing appear for a prolonged period of time on the nearest caches page and in the weekly e-mail notification of new caches. Exceptions are sometimes made for events that are designed to attract a regional, national or international group of geocachers, or if an overnight stay is expected as part of the event, requiring advance reservations and travel planning (for example, a campout). Contact your reviewer if you wish to set up such an event, which may be published up to six months prior to the event date. Groundspeak can promote Geocaching through events that may be an exception to the guidelines, if we deem that is necessary to further the game.
After the event has passed, the event cache should be archived by the organizer within four weeks.

[Brenin Tegeingl]

The point I was making having previously stated that despite my opinion of them, if a Flash Mob meets the Guidelines I will publish it. Is that even if a Flash Mob had over 500 attendees, there is no guarantee it would be granted Mega Status by Groundspeak. Again as previously stated, at least one event which had well over 500 verified attendees. Was refused Mega Status by Groundspeak.

500 Attendees does not mean Mega Status, it means Groundspeak will consider Mega Status for the Event.


If the personal opinions of TPTB are a deciding factor, they should also be listedGC is their site, so what is listed is decided by their opinions. And a one minute event will not be accepted for listing on GC, so they have already set a minimum time limit for events. Just like the removal of Virtual-Webcam and locationless categories was a decision made exclusivly by them

[nobbynobbs]

Don't worry I also fall into the not really bothered with flash mob events as I enjoy meeting the people there and having fun.

It's just strange that they have left this rather ambiguous. That just leaves the door open for people to get frustrated and so on. It also means that the local review team tend to get the brunt of that.

You'd have thought it would be quite easy to word some guidelines that made it much clearer and saved all the hassle. I mean let's be honest how long does it take to type: " Flash mob events will never be considered for mega status" into the guidelines?

Now the idea of a flash mob side line at the next mega would be fun. At a certain time all the attendees have to stand in the field at their given co-ords so that they spell something. Then all we need is to either be able to capture the image by camera on a kite ( any volunteers?) or by some other means. :)

[PopUpPirate]

...I mean let's be honest how long does it take to type: " Flash mob events will never be considered for mega status" into the guidelines?...

It looks like a flash mob could well go Mega, certainly reading what reviewers past and present have stated. I wouldn't set one, and wouldn't particularly rave about it, but good luck to anyone who wants to :) It would be no mean feat to get 500 people to attend it, that's for sure.

I'd have to disagree with Deccy ;) - I reckon the UK could easily support 2 Mega's in a year. Not necessarily two Mega's in the style of the "UK's First Mega Event", but with a bit of creative thinking, why not? :)

Groundspeak's rules are as clear on a Mega event as they are on a Micro cache - the disclaimer affects the whole site. I can't knock GS on this occasion :p Of COURSE they are going to have some T&C, but let's not think that they are designed solely to beat anyone with a stick that dare suggest setting an alternative kind of Mega.

[fraggle69]

It's that old chestnut, where GS will change the rules or find a sub txt in the T&C to p***us off!

[Mrs Blorenge]

It's that old chestnut, where GS will change the rules or find a sub txt in the T&C to pxxx us off!

fraggle - If you are absolutely serious and keen to do a Mega FlashMob Event why not just start the process off by contacting Groundspeak with your basic plan of what you would like to do and see what happens?

Send it to contact@geocaching.com and head it "Proposal for a Mega Flashmob Event", or something similar.


Lucilla

[fraggle69]

fraggle - If you are absolutely serious and keen to do a Mega FlashMob Event why not just start the process off by contacting Groundspeak with your basic plan of what you would like to do and see what happens?

Send it to contact@geocaching.com and head it "Proposal for a Mega Flashmob Event", or something similar.


Lucilla


Ahh that's how I do it........

If a reviewer does not support it, how does that affect the process and what do I get if a reviewer does support it?? Was Deci meaning he wouldn't publish it, or does support have a deeper meaning?

I am a bit confused as to what has previously been stated.

[Mongoose39uk]

Ahh that's how I do it........

If a reviewer does not support it, how does that affect the process and what do I get if a reviewer does support it?? Was Deci meaning he wouldn't publish it, or does support have a deeper meaning?

I am a bit confused as to what has previously been stated.

He has quite clearly stated he will publish it even if he does not like it.

[keehotee]

Send it to contact@geocaching.com and head it "Proposal for a Mega Flashmob Event", or something similar.


Lucilla

Isn't that a dead address?
None of the emails I've sent there over the past month have been replied to.
And yes, before anybody asks, they were all perfectly civil and were asking reasonable questions.......

[The Hornet]

Isn't that a dead address?
None of the emails I've sent there over the past month have been replied to.

That has been many people's experience, mine included, recently. The same applies to the other "catch all" address - appeal@geocaching.com. To my mind if a company advertises a contact address it really ought to provide sufficient resources to respond in a reasonable time. This is plainly not happening.

As the people you are trying to reach work for Groundspeak have you tried contacting them direct? You might try michael@groundspeak.com, jenn@groundspeak.com etc. It's worth a try.

[fraggle69]

I posted the question immediately I offered to, in the Reviewers Forum. A good discussion took place. The reply from Groundspeak is that they will consider any request for a Flash Mob Event to be upgraded to a mega after the event has taken place.

Deci


Seems that's not exactly the case. They've considered my request for a Mega FME and have declined to grant mega status using the following quote.
Jenn wrote
The Knowledgebase article says:
" We do not allow the use of Mega-Event designation to increase the size of a normally large event to become a larger Mega-Event. Doing so would lead to many requests from cachers who want their semi-large event to become larger by virtue of the cache type. Rather, we would like the designation to be granted on the merits of the actual event. This is why some events attain mega status after a few annual iterations, and not at the first year. "

"So, your 1st year at this will certainly not be given mega status. Assuming you actually get 500+ people and want to do it again another year, we may consider it."
end quote

I presume this is a little of what this years mega event committe came up against, in which case it's a load of black hole! :(

[keehotee]

Hot off the press......


Michael LaPaglia to me
show details 9:58 PM (2 minutes ago)

Reply

Please take a moment to look at the current guidelines.

Mega-Event Caches

Mega-Events are a special designation reserved for only the largest event caches – those which attract geocachers to attend on a regional, national or international level. To qualify as a Mega-Event, the organizers must obtain prior approval from Groundspeak – not from their volunteer cache reviewer. Among other requirements, the organizers must demonstrate a substantial likelihood that at least 500 people will attend the event. A Mega-Event Cache may be published up to one year prior to the event date. A regular Event Cache can be changed to a Mega-Event Cache after the fact, if the organizers demonstrate to Groundspeak that more than 500 people attended.

As you can see from the highlights the guidelines state that you have to talk to us about it and that there are other requirements than the one listed.

At some point we will update them At this time its so new we are still figuring it out. The terms of use do cover things like this in cases like this.

Groundspeak may change, suspend, or discontinue any portion of the Site, or any service offered on the Site, at any time, including but not limited to any feature, database, application, or content. Groundspeak may also impose limits on certain features offered on the Site with or without notice.

Once we get it all figured out we will be able to explain it better.


Please let me know if you have any further questions.

Michael LaPaglia
Community Relations Specialist

[PopUpPirate]

Ruddy nora! Fair play to Michael for a detailed answer :p but they really should get their act together, it's not exactly encouraging you to consider setting one, is it!!!

Still, where there's a will....!

[fraggle69]

Ruddy nora! Fair play to Michael for a detailed answer :p but they really should get their act together, it's not exactly encouraging you to consider setting one, is it!!!

Still, where there's a will....!

Exactly,
I am not going through the organising of a huge flashmob Event or Standard Event, just so I can re-enact it a year later, it should be a do or die moment.
I don't understand what they're trying to say, in one way they're saying it has to be an annual event and yet they're saying events that run annualy with big numbers can't be upgraded. I am loosing the plot here or what.?
Don't see why they can't give mega status and then judge it after the evnt, it would take a lot of ambiguity outta the situation.:beer:

[The Hornet]

I'm pleased that people are getting responses from GSP but now I'm confused (yes I know!! ;):))

Michael quotes the Guidelines:
A regular Event Cache can be changed to a Mega-Event Cache after the fact, if the organizers demonstrate to Groundspeak that more than 500 people attended.

Then Jenn Says
"So, your 1st year at this will certainly not be given mega status. Assuming you actually get 500+ people and want to do it again another year, we may consider it."

So the Guidelines say it CAN be upgraded if 500+ attend but Jenn is saying that it certainly WON'T be. I can well understand that to get "Mega" status before the event needs a lot of work to convince GSP, but to have it awarded AFTER an event where you have proof that 500+ attended should be almost automatic.

[L8HNB]

Perhaps they don't want to send an Observer in the Executive jet for only 15 minutes.........

[Bear and Ragged]

"So, your 1st year at this will certainly not be given mega status. Assuming you actually get 500+ people and want to do it again another year, we may consider it."

So, just how lucky was the UK to get a Mega this year?!!

And then "We may consider it another year" :eek:

Our rules.
We do as WE like.

[fraggle69]

Anybody gonna clarify the situation? Or are the Lackeys trying to hatch an evil "new rule" - heaven forbid.

[Bear and Ragged]

Anybody gonna clarify the situation? Or are the Lackeys trying to hatch an evil "new rule" - heaven forbid.

From somewhere in GS HQ

"Quick, the UK cachers are starting to understand the rules (oops!) guidelines, change them again!"

[fraggle69]

My emails gone unanswered so I guess you're right about them re-writting the rules.
Maybe get a straight answer one day, but I am not holding my breath. I suspect they're hoping I just move along queitly, in a sort of not fully undertanding anything kind of a way.

:confused:

[The Cache Hoppers]

.... I suspect they're hoping I just move along queitly, in a sort of not fully undertanding anything kind of a way.

:confused:

They don't know you very well then do they :D:D:D

[Edgemaster]

My emails gone unanswered so I guess you're right about them re-writting the rules.
Maybe get a straight answer one day, but I am not holding my breath. I suspect they're hoping I just move along queitly, in a sort of not fully undertanding anything kind of a way.

:confused:
Or perhaps they're snowed under, as has been implied by others...

[fraggle69]

Or perhaps they're snowed under, as has been implied by others...

Yeah man, re-writting the rules :ohmy:

[dodgydaved]

Yeah man, re-writting the rules :ohmy:


Why are we surprised? The writing was on the wall 5 months ago:confused:

[jacobite]

Haggis Hunter has a FME event planned for the 8th November in Edinburgh. He's going to add a bit of a twist to it, so it should be fun! (as long as it doesn't involve me taking all my clothes off, I've already done that one):o

[fraggle69]

I am still waiting for a reply from groundspeak.com or is it .****? silence him who speaks agains the lord frog?. hmm

[fraggle69]

still no reply to my email and no clarification offered by groundspeak on the matter.
tick tock......toss***:(